BELIEF SYSTEMS AND ETC.

[Sandy Clark]

Belief systems are part of the Human Experience and without them we would sit like a bump on a log...non existing. Every decision is based on a belief system for the most part, even to move a body part.

Automaton movements such as eating, etc. come from a belief in life. Those who commit suicide have come to the decision and belief that life is no longer worth living.

When I am really troubled (doesn't happen much anymore at my age ) I ask the deeper questions as Christine stated to see what belief I am acting from and whether I wish to reassess the situation or belief in order to move forward from a stuck position. In that my daily beliefs and values are in a constant state of movement as life flows however my core beliefs and values stay solid amongst the flux of it all. ie LOVE creates win-win situations, the GOLDEN RULE, etc.

[LostNFound]

Thank you again Maggie, I watched some of the video but not all as of yet, I did find more of his videos and they look to be quite interesting to explore. I did find other writings of his and you could be right on about his belief system being more spiritual science. This is what and why I began to do this thread was to explore the belief systems of us we them. I certainly have them and have change or did away with many in my life so far simply because I did see the false and fraud of them. So keep on, wow I am seeing so much more by conversation here. Been a lonely walk through for so long and spect that it will still be in many respects a lonely walk simply because each of us walks our own path in this time. It is a great gift that we meet others along the way that impart their own wisdom and knowledge of the path they walk and we get to walk along together for awhile.

Steven

[LostNFound]

Belief systems are part of the Human Experience and without them we would sit like a bump on a log...non existing. Every decision is based on a belief system for the most part, even to move a body part.

Automaton movements such as eating, etc. come from a belief in life. Those who commit suicide have come to the decision and belief that life is no longer worth living.

When I am really troubled (doesn't happen much anymore at my age ) I ask the deeper questions as Christine stated to see what belief I am acting from and whether I wish to reassess the situation or belief in order to move forward from a stuck position. In that my daily beliefs and values are in a constant state of movement as life flows however my core beliefs and values stay solid amongst the flux of it all. ie LOVE creates win-win situations, the GOLDEN RULE, etc.

Thank you Sandy. My first post here was to give a basic definition of this topic. When I spent time doing the research it all seemed to me that we do not exist without a belief system. I do not want to be a bump on a log although there does seem to be people that are nothing more than a bump on a toad stool or log as you say. I see them as politicians for the most part but even they have a belief system and for the most part it seems to be "everything for me and nothing for you". Guess that could be called the greedy, selfish belief system.

Very good response to this thread. We do not do anything without a belief system of some sort. Yes we can recognize the wrong or bad systems and as Maggie stated, Prune our own trees. This phrase is based in growth. When I was a young whipper snapper I was raised on a farm and we had fruit trees galore. Every fall these trees had to be pruned so they would grow new fruit in the spring so the lesson right there for me was exactly that. Prune the trees so they grow new.

My decisions of growth all my life are based on a belief system of one kind or another but like you say, there is that core value belief that stays no matter what system may be in play with all those other daily get up and go things. Meditation seems to be a wisdom,knowledge learning area don't you think. I mean to say quiet and solitude. "Sit under a tree and see all that exists in mother nature" It could be that the most simplest things are what is real whereas all the other bullshit is just that. Nothing more than distractions to keep us all from feeling the love that swirls around us. I learned a while back that love cannot be captured it cannot be stopped within our beings. It is like the river it forever moves and so to receive is to give and to give is to receive. If one closes up the love that is on the move it becomes corrupt or is locked up and becomes pain and all sorts of nasty things. So this is part of my core value belief, to not stop the flow of love.

I would say that I have been in belief systems that create ugliness and there are so many out there today that have so many of us trapped and not knowing which way to turn. Here is a picture, I raised chickens at a time in my life and the birds always would peck on my door step when it was time for feeding. I would step out with the can of feed and toss a handful one way and watch the entire flock move in tandem toward that feed. Then I would throw a handful a different direction and again the entire flock would move in tandem toward the feed. Their simple belief system was food and where ever it was they moved to. This is what the political/government belief system does to its owners and the people do not even realize it. This system is forced on its benefactors by fear and violence. How did this happen? We set on a log like a bump and believed that we were being fed. So there is some of that belief system in action and continuing.

The GOLDEN RULE is good and my Dad always taught that to me as I was growing up. Christine's saying by Rumi that she has hanging in her kitchen is so poignant. We must first remove the barriers that keep us from love, That is just Paraphrased but it is close. When I turn 200 I will look back and see all the mistakes I made to that point and grow some more.

Steven

[Sandy Clark]

Thank you Steven for your beautiful words and sharing..<3

[maggie]

There is a CME today. Is that a belief or a "just is"?

In the era of wide spread information, I am interested in collating verifiable data. What I have observed is that most of the people I have encountered are really not interested in setting aside belief to cooperate in an open ended investigation. Some of the people who complain most about being open minded are the most prejudiced. The prejudice (based on belief) camouflages itself and this is something we all do...hide our belief to our own view. I don't think we can exactly avoid belief but if we recognize prejudice as wide spread and wish to release this obstacle, that is a great step. Belief is dull and passe and imprisoning. yes, that is an IMO (so disprove it and I will be glad).

I want to admit here, I am prejudiced about people. I dislike what looks like "not thinking" and that people behave stupidly with brazen arrogance.
People love to gossip, to speculate on motivation of complete strangers, shun others for just speaking their minds, wish one another ill, and most of all clique up and do just about any underhanded bit to others "outside" the clique in deference to common belief. I doubt because often the most assertive people are just trying to pass on their belief.

The anything that will build a buttress and support for belief is called seeking truth. Then the same people will pass their beliefs on through coercive social persuasion to others (and eliminate the refusers). Then there will come an assertion of "this is FACT".

Yet, just to believe any assertion made is just a belief is also belief and stupid (like flat earth stupidity). And I absolutely hate that a neutral set of conditions like what is called "sacred geometry" is besmirched by stupid people calling it a belief... some things just are and are then used in various ways as in wielding hammers.

All the while people are BELIEVING with passion, there is something beyond belief that may NEVER be understood and categorized but IS.

Who can we look to reveal "just is" without knowing why or even exactly what? IMO that would be the true skeptic who will release any what in favor of a clearer "observation" and eschew all need to pin down the why. This is a curious human who is interested in knowledge and faithful to true wonderment. ALSO, this one has no need to convert others to a believing of anything. This is a confident, intelligent and trustworthy being.

Here is a compiled recent example of unexplainable ISness in a popular area rife with belief (and recordings present info I appreciate though some viewers no doubt may insist ANY footage is contrived when beliefs call for refutation):

[youtube]https://youtu.be/usvbswh7LPU[/youtube]

[heyokah]

Maggie, this post is as resonating with my heart as it is "reasonating" with my mind.

Just giving you the thankful thumbs-up wasn't enough for me to show my appreciation.

[Sandy Clark]

Maggie, do you remember Snizzers from TOT, he was from that area and all of his UFO shots were awesome..made me wonder how he is doing as he doesn't seem to post anywhere now. Thanks for posting.

[LostNFound]

I started this thread to gather information and insight into "Belief systems". I delved into the definitions and looked at all the different systems that are listed where ever I could find them. I fully intended to post the different systems and perhaps take one and peel it like an onion to remove layers and perhaps get to the core of that particular system.

Certainly the replies I received opened some doors for my own sake but I have come to realize that this particular topic is so ingrained into the human psychic that it can never be forgotten as some may say. The belief system that is owned by any one individual can never be set aside by itself and then have that individual be absolutely blank as noted in other posts. Yes, one can set aside a certain belief of something but the human mind will always fill a void with another belief. To take a religious belief and discover the falsity of it or them and then move from that to a different belief system is all we seem to be able to do.

Sandy so succinctly stated in her post above " Belief systems are part of the Human Experience and without them we would sit like a bump on a log...non existing. Every decision is based on a belief system for the most part, even to move a body part." and further went on to say,
"Automaton movements such as eating, etc. come from a belief in life. Those who commit suicide have come to the decision and belief that life is no longer worth living." So even in the simple action of taking ones own life there is still belief. The BELIEF that life is no longer worth living

What is "verifiable data" is it nothing more that someone Else's perception of something in their own revolving research and then publishing something called an answer or a theory or an opinion or perhaps a video to a more obscure question which only serves to lead to more unexplained questions. Thus being able to sell their idea to a public that may or may not believe that someone has come up with an answer to something that cannot really be proved? That someone has spent a lifetime searching for an answer to an abstract concept and all of a sudden writes a book and sells it to a certain sect of humans that may believe in the same thing? Remember, this all rests on the belief system of one person, example (LRH). Whether it is a science belief, a religious belief, a political belief, a spiritual belief or even a paranormal belief we all get to take a shot and perhaps sell our own perceptions to others that may have perceptions that run closely parallel to our own. So then if one believes it is verifiable data then perhaps that one can be satisfied and not feel lost in their own search. Here again it all rests on belief, trust or faith in one person or a group of people and his or their perceptions through one or more belief systems.

So someone commits suicide because they believe that life is no longer living. Does this void the pain or suffering, certainly not in those that are close to that commits the act. Does it stop whatever that person thought would stop after they leave this world? Do we or anyone else know these questions? There are a lot of people that will try and convince those around them that they know those answers and all the while they hold out their hands to receive any money that some fool will give them. So belief systems continue whether some one dies or not. The sad thing is that there will always be someone to step in and thrive on someone Else's suffering and pain and that in itself is a belief system it’s called Greed.

Maggie stated this. "What I have observed is that most of the people I have encountered are really not interested in setting aside belief to cooperate in an open ended investigation."

Question, is it only the other people that you are asking to set aside a belief or are you telling them that you are willing to set aside your own beliefs as well?

I must say that I find this statement a bit confusing and contradictory to the topic. One can not just set aside a belief without study of what it is that they believe in and to possibly be the only one that is required to do so just to talk with you seems a bit harsh and controlling.

I have to ask, what belief is it you want set aside. There are so many, I think a different one for each individual. What I mean to say is each individual has his/her own perception of whatever belief (system) may be in play. So in your observation do you start out talking with these ‘most’ people about their and perhaps your own beliefs? Seems to me if that is how you approach this then you are already starting an open ended communication which may lead to the open ended investigation. The cooperation part again sounds close to a control of or trying to control another individual. (If you don’t cooperate with me I will tell on you, I will hurt you, etc.) Get that picture? So then, “open ended Investigation” just what is it that you will be investigating” the other persons beliefs or yours? The word Investigation implies a belief in something, “open ended” also implies a belief in something, “cooperation” definitely implies a belief in something. Maybe we could have an open ended communication and then an investigation of each ones belief and after the investigation we both might find that we can set aside the current belief.

Well as I said, this topic is so ingrained in all of us; I think most do not even know what belief may be driving their souls. I say most and this is in my daily life as I move through. I see the different threads that come forth and they in themselves show me a certain depth of belief in how many stay close to each other in their content. The posts within these threads show a deeper depth to belief or not. So just by observance I begin to answer my own questions. It just begins by asking a question and the observing becomes more open and on the surface. So life is the great teacher, all we have to do is ask and then use clothe pins to hold our eyes open

I really am enjoying this forum and the intelligent threads that pop up. I am more of an observer but every once in a while something touches me to speak.
Thank you all.

Steven

[Anders]

I have to ask, what belief is it you want set aside.

Maybe that question was for Maggie but I wanted to mention a huge one I have: the belief in aging and death.

One possibility is to examine the transhumanist path. There are already scientists working on solving the problem of aging such as Aubrey de Grey and Google's company Calico. My hope however is that the problem can be solved with spirituality/consciousness. Bruce Lipton for example has said that aging is just a belief. The reason for why it is so hard to change certain beliefs is that we live in a collective field of beliefs he said (something like that), and it's very difficult for the individual to change those beliefs.

Something I have discovered when changing beliefs is to recognize and embrace the confusion and uncertainty that arise when changing beliefs. The human mind hates confusion. And for a good reason. Fear is actually more desirable for the mind than confusion. With fear it's at least possible to come up with a solution whereas confusion totally immobilizes the mind. With mindfulness practice however it's possible to accept the confusion consciously to allow the mind to reprogram itself. That's a constructive use of confusion.

[maggie]

Maggie stated this. "What I have observed is that most of the people I have encountered are really not interested in setting aside belief to cooperate in an open ended investigation."

Question, is it only the other people that you are asking to set aside a belief or are you telling them that you are willing to set aside your own beliefs as well?

I must say that I find this statement a bit confusing and contradictory to the topic. One can not just set aside a belief without study of what it is that they believe in and to possibly be the only one that is required to do so just to talk with you seems a bit harsh and controlling.

I have to ask, what belief is it you want set aside. There are so many, I think a different one for each individual. What I mean to say is each individual has his/her own perception of whatever belief (system) may be in play. So in your observation do you start out talking with these ‘most’ people about their and perhaps your own beliefs? Seems to me if that is how you approach this then you are already starting an open ended communication which may lead to the open ended investigation. The cooperation part again sounds close to a control of or trying to control another individual. (If you don’t cooperate with me I will tell on you, I will hurt you, etc.) Get that picture? So then, “open ended Investigation” just what is it that you will be investigating” the other persons beliefs or yours? The word Investigation implies a belief in something, “open ended” also implies a belief in something, “cooperation” definitely implies a belief in something. Maybe we could have an open ended communication and then an investigation of each ones belief and after the investigation we both might find that we can set aside the current belief.

I appreciate your "challenge" question. It's really important. I certainly must be a Believer more than I even know and I might be very unable to see my own refusal to set aside belief at any moment. This matter of beliefs is the very hardest aspect of operating in the thought realm. Thanks!

The biggest belief I'd like to set aside (for me) is actually based on a fear... of pain. Pain is very challenging and my belief about it is that pain REALLY HURTS and is to be avoided. This belief keeps me tentative and disliking stretching beyond the limits where pain sets in for me. I am a wuss about pain.I'd like to stop believing pain is "deadly" and in pain being a limit for me.

Like Anders I would really like to set aside the idea of aging and death. Alongside that, illness which needs a "cure" and also set aside the belief in time having a direction from past to future. I'd like to set aside the belief that suffering is the way to be triggered into growth as a person. I'd like to set aside the need to eat food. I'd like to set aside the belief that.... anything is IMPOSSIBLE.