Is the confederate flag racist?

[Cristian]

"No

The flag is not racist. It is a symbol of patriots who were willing to die to protect this country and make sure it remained as the founders intended. Slavery was never the reason fir the war but only an excuse to start one.Lincoln could care less if slavery remained and is on record stating such, even offering to make slavery legal in the Southern states in return for the South compromising their beliefs. In contrast, Jefferson Davis had a written plan to end slavery within five years. We are still fighting the same battle as was fought back then. Freedom with as little interference frim the federal government as possible. Teach children the truth and it will sit us ALL free."


"Nonsense

As a history teacher and a Stanford historian, I am shocked at the dismantling of southern history based upon the mistaken assumption that the Confederate flag is representative of racism. Look at any photograph of the Klan when it was at its height, you will not find a single Confederate flag but plenty of United States flags, shall we then ban the US flag which flew over far more suffering under its name?"


"History is written by the victor

History is written by the victor. The North won the war, so they get to write the history of why the Civil War was fought, saying that all Southerners were racist slaveowners, yet 90 % of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves, and there were some black Confederate soldiers. What is being taught to the youth of today os warped. What's next? That the Civil War was fought over vampirism?
You can educate ignorance, but you can't fix stupid."


"The confederate flag is not RACIST!

The confederate flag is not racist because the Civil War was about States Rights and and anybody who wants to say it is racist is a complete idiot. The actual confederate flag was not stars and bars it was however 13 stars in a circle in a field of red. Yes slavery did get brought into the Civil War but that was after it started. It was originally about states rights. The confederate flag is heritage not HATE."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-c ... lag-racist" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Phil]

Sure, the argument is factually correct...A flag can't be racist. But a giant majority the motherfuckers that proudly fly it, around here in the yankee north at least, definitely are. And more importantly, a vast majority of people that see it, interpret it as such. So the historian or the "opposing to the argument" can have all the "facts" they want...it doesn't change the reality they live in.

[Cristian]

well ..because I'm not a US citizen ...that can mean two things:

1. Either I don’t know what I'm talking about and it's not my business to engage in such topics

or

2. I am completely distant and not confined to education and some other feelings that may haunt an average US guy .


From an energetic point of view it's obvious you (US) have a trauma . The Civil War was never over.

I understand the silly "Confederate Flag " supporters ...like swastika being (mis)used over and over.


However I am more interested in energy . That's what drives me.


I feel like south vs north was a deeper problem . Still is.

And I feel I am missing something . Like why is that important now?

Like...energetic clues of something else..


Maybe just from a spiritual point of view...you cannot "upgrade" people with arms. Slavery and other things...it was their choice and their time to understand why and why not.

Seems to me the issue starts there (Civil War) and JFK and 9/11 just grow from there.

Some issues with that war

[Phil]

No, you're not missing anything, there is an energy to it. One that effects is to the "disgusted by it" as much as those that proudly fly it. It's a very effective divider.

A big problem IS in the information. The AUTHORITY that provides information (and the emotional attachments along with it)

Americans are taught in school, Ch 23, slavery....Ch 24, yanks beat the confederates, slaves are free. Ch 25-100 (and Ch 1 - 22), way more important white people shit. The education system here encourages kids not to think. The value of knowing the names of Generals or battles is as or more important any facts about any slaves (or owners)...and the idea of humans killing humans, supposedly over the ownership of other humans (and for flags and heritage and whateverthefuck else) is pretty much lost in the mix.

Why is it "important" now? Because someone who likes to divide (and CAN), made it so.

I'm not really disgusted by it (or harshly judge anyone I see bearing it), but it's super frustrating to me that anyone could hold value to ANYTHING overtly (even remotely) associated with the idea of slavery. Whatever they value of their "heritage", is more important to them. I don't like living in that reality. (of course, the "debate" is a whole other thing)

[Cristian]

Thanks Phil,

I feel it's a recurring ,increasingly boring subject to you Americans. It's not the soap opera I'm after.

I don’t know what triggered me .

But you know what ? They use the confederate flag more like a freedom symbol than an racist one.

I know you know that. doh .

Really don’t know why I'm posting this

[Edythe]

In my opinion, the Confederate flag was hijacked by racists and white supremacists. During the American Civil War era, not everyone was a slave owner. Slave owners were the minority. This flag used to represent southern patriotism. Many ideas, beliefs, and symbols have been commandeered by groups of people to suit there needs and insecurities. This flag was commandeered for the twisted purpose of solidarity. And, as always.. this is just my opinion.

♥E

[Hermit]

Edythe, one quick question.

How would the average southern patriot of the Confederate age feel about having an African American join them and their family for diner, or generally feel about one of their children engaging in an amorous relationship with an African American?

A recent lecture I attended on the subject of the Cross and the lynching tree as ways of empathizing divine passion used photographs of southern patriots, I suspect most of them non-slave owners, attending a lynching. They had smiles on their faces as if they were attending a Sunday church picnic.

I will agree that looking back at a certain angle, there is a romance about the era. Notably, there is also a similar feeling when I look back at Edwardian, Victorian, and even earlier periods in English history which also contain black spots.

The question, I suspect, is not if a flag is racist but rather at what point is political correctness justifiable as a censoring modality? Because if I look at how society has adopted a cutting or rewording of phrases, the last 50 years will be known as the age that humanity censored itself into a kind of slavery.

When I as a non-American see this flag, the first thing I see is a hooded member of the KKK. I doubt I'm the only one who does have this association. Although what you say may be true to an extent, unfortunately the public relations team for the flag needs to work a little harder.

[Phil]

Thanks Phil,

I feel it's a recurring ,increasingly boring subject to you Americans. It's not the soap opera I'm after.

I don’t know what triggered me .

But you know what ? They use the confederate flag more like a freedom symbol than an racist one.

I know you know that. doh .

Really don’t know why I'm posting this

No need for apologies at all, I'm happy to shed light, sorry it's so biased. I'm surprised a Romanian would have even heard of the damn thing. I'm sure it's not universally American (my attitude), but it prevails in the northeast, to an educated self white middle class yank, the immediate reaction upon seeing it is "I hate N*****s"

I'm sure it means different down south (and central and west, it's a big country), where I think it should have just stayed, you're (mostly) ignorant and/or gross to flaunt it up here

[Rob Halford]

Most people haven't a clue about what they are talking about these days, for some reason.
The flag you show is the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia, Robert E Lees army.
It is NOT and never was the flag of the CSA, that is the Bonnie Blue Flag.
As for the angle that it's racist, I would say that the flag of the united snakes is far more racist.
Look at all the shit that happened under that flag.
The slaves were under that flag for years, yet nothing happened before or after.
The indian tribes were decimated before, during and after the civil war.
And so on.......................

[Phil]

In my opinion, the Confederate flag was hijacked by racists and white supremacists. During the American Civil War era, not everyone was a slave owner. Slave owners were the minority. This flag used to represent southern patriotism. Many ideas, beliefs, and symbols have been commandeered by groups of people to suit there needs and insecurities. This flag was commandeered for the twisted purpose of solidarity. And, as always.. this is just my opinion.

♥E

I agree completely. And once it's highjacked, it's meaning changes, literally, in the reality we all share.

Swastikas are cool looking and if you wear them in Asian countries it says something about wealth and auspiciousness, and that's great. But if you wear one in a circle on red background certain places, you're saying something else.

And in America we get charged up about it and turn into political shit. So it goes.

You can choose to uphold some ideals or you can self censor out of respect for the possibility of others' different interpretation. No one's getting oppressed over the confederate or VA Army or whatever the fuck the decal from the General Lee actually was...except to a handful of symbol & authority worshipping victim wannabes and armchair political pundits

I love that people love displaying it, it gives me a hint