Hit and Run

[maggie]

In forums there are many instances, just as there are in real life, where a person hits another and then runs away, either by the die down of a thread, by leaving the thread with "that is all I have to say" or by actually leaving the forum.

In "real life", these provocations come when without previous discussion, a significant hit is thrown down. Then the person refuses to take on that what was "revealed" is needing discussion. The worst example is when in a "fight" between loved ones, a "hit" is thrown to completely shut down the ability to continue. Then the person "leaves" the scene either physically or psychically.

This leaves a hang up IMO where nothing may progress.

I have been kind of obsessed with what I call a culture of "Narcissists R US" and I have coined that phrase as it for me descibes the almost accepted way that narcissm has shaped the "rules" that are accepted so we "think" it is actually a strategy worth doing to get a hit in and run.

I just saw a movie "My King" that was a story of "love" and showed how there was a complete over powering of a woman by a man who to me had the character well portrayed of narcissism. Despite his brutality (and it is SO brutal to destroy trust and the basic comfort of support between people), she continues to "love" him. We WANT to love. WE desire closeness. These terrible people (terrorists) want us to want them. They enjoy their power as hit us and then run away. They don't stay GONE though. They resurface in their own timing to have another day with us. Our capacity to FEEL stung by them is delicious.

Is this love? We "put up" with the people who hurt us because they seem valuable. So we will let them come and let them throw these barbaric communications. We retain the chronic hits that build into scar tissue separating us from our own empathy. Narcissism as culture takes down one more gentle being? Over time I am sure it will.
This is so poisonous IMO.

I say CALL this out. Confront this sick way of "counting coup".

Instead?

Off Topic

From here: http://consciouslifenews.com/7-tactics- ... s/1170045/

"Count Coup on Thy Self, Count Coup on Thy Neighbor:

“To be human is necessarily to be a vulnerable risk-taker; to be a courageous human is to be good at it.” –Jonathan Lear

“Counting coup” is a metaphor for a wake-up call, for shocking ourselves and our fellow man into wakefulness. It can be done either through the written word, street art, or through a progressive lifestyle that is in-your-face sustainable. We’re counting coup on that which is unhealthy within us. When we count coup on inertia, sloth, narcissism and extremism, we do it so that vitality, courageous action and diversity can shine through; so that we can, like Thoreau said, “Live deliberately.”

Counting coup on ourselves begins with a cringe, followed by a howl, followed by the continuation of the human leitmotif. We will kick and we will scream, we will sojourn and we will dream, we will hunger and we will ache, we will vacillate and we will vindicate, but we will be alive, clawing our way ever closer to a more self-actualized state; a state where we even learn how to count coup on enlightenment itself.

Tonight, let’s creep up close to the gods talking in their sleep, count coup, and leave with their secrets in our satchel."

I repudiate the cowardly thrown out hits...and those that use this disgusting tactic. It looks so varied and is so the same: throw a past event into the face of the present, take one in confidence and then come from left field (why was it never brought up that "this was the opinion" and saved until now), Attack with all the "straw people" arguments, make sly witty comments that contain barbs within "funny" words ETC>

Words lie on the surface of ENERGY geared to destroy inner faith, inter faith....and I could go on but you may know what I mean...AND you may have seen these used even here, even recently? We ALL need to stand up IMO and refuse to use this weapon or see its use and let it slide....on forums AND in our personal life where it is tricky. Those we know in the strangle holds of full blown narcissistic relationships may need special care.

[Christine]

maggie ~ This is a delicate subject for sure and requires some fine inner tuning ... I have been pondering the nature of narcism and self absorption lately. It wasn't too long ago that I popped up and out of a state of being that was totally self absorbed, it happens and it happens all the time. There is something very real about being in state of I AM consciousness seeking to know it self, you tend to see everything through your own lens for a period of time. In a very real way we are looking into mirrors and seeing our own reflection. Finding true inner gnosis requires ruthless and honest self examination which is usually involves seeing our reflection in the outer world, the feed back loop.

Narcism is a pathological state when a soul can't self reflect and therefore is dependent on keeping an image or their own straw man alive. In truly harmful states the person will go to extremes to protect this image. At this point any engagement with such a person will be self harmful.

What I am wanting to get across is that there are degrees to narcism that are not harmful.

In the dynamics you refer one can ask the question of who is irresponsible for the way one reacts to such "hits"? Obviously forum life is different from the daily living life with loved ones and others, in the daily life the reaction time is usually in your face unless one is wise enough to ask for time alone to contemplate, this takes a great deal of maturity, something I would guess we are all still learning. On a forum you have more distance and can take what time you need to decide how to respond or if to respond at all. You can also self reflect on what is brought up within you by someone's use of less than honorable tactics or by expressing an opinion at odds with your own.

Sometimes an action that is actually harmless can be construed by another as an affront. Having moderated forums for so many years now I am aware how often this is the case. It is equally true that some seeming harmless joke is laced with energetic barbs, the intent isn't always clear. Sometimes there is an energetic exchanged that appears playful and artful but it can quickly go sour if one participant steps too far over the line of the other's sensibilities. I tend to use these examples for learning and self examination.

Speaking for myself as honestly as I can, I like to play, I enjoy exchanges that sometimes prod, I appreciate the ability to laugh at ourselves, to be silly and before we get too serious to source laughter. I suppose I step over others lines sometimes, I care and yet I ultimately know that I am not responsible for how another reacts. By saying that I also assume the responsibility of my own actions.

One of the demarcation lines useful for self discernment is determining whether you or the other wants to win, ie: duality consciousness which usually indicates there are also feelings of having something to lose and need to defend. Clearly not the most aware state of consciousness. By saying this I am not abdicating being prepared or skilled, it is all a play of energy and there is an art to playing. And there are some nasty players too.

[Hermit]

Still waters run deep.

[Old Wolf]

It's often the case that the kindest words carry the sharpest barbs. The level of passive abuse that pervades written electronic communication can easily consume a person and there are those out there who feed off of the reactions of others (some knowingly, some not). It takes a high level of personal discernment to avoid projecting your problems through written communication and a higher level of discernment not to react to the provocations of others.

[Eelco]

I am taking my break, maybe because i'm a narcissist.
But that's not what I tell myself.

Since I don't have anything nice to say lately it seems it's better to say nothing.
Better for my general state of well being anyway.

ANd because I have no stamina or resolve or anything like that.
I now use the standard password gibberish EE is sending through the forgot my password page.

Makes me thing twice or even trice before answering any posts.

With Love
Eelco

[Naga_Fireball]

Well i for one hope to see you again,
Incidentally I almost got run over 10 min ago ,
Bike crosses busy street too slow

[neonblue]

Healthy Vs. Unhealthy Narcissism

The Spectrum of Narcissism is on a Continuum.

Narcissism is a spectrum of behaviour that is prevalent in the human condition universally. What this means is that we are all narcissistic to a degree, and the narcissistic traits can range on a continuum from 1 – 10, from what we call Healthy Narcissism (being a 1), all the way to a pathological form, called Narcissistic Personality Disorder or NPD (being a 10), with varying degrees in between. When narcissism reaches a stage called “Malignant Narcissism” the person consistently manifests at least 5 of the 9 criteria necessary to put it into the category of being a mental disorder.

To the casual observer, telling the difference between a normal range narcissistic personality and a narcissistically disordered personality may not be very evident to begin with, because the difference is the difference between the individuals “intentions”.The healthy narcissistic personality operates from a place of good will towards another person, while the unhealthy malignant disordered personality operates from a place of ill will towards another person, which naturally enough puts a chasm between them.

Healthy Narcissism Style V’s Unhealthy Narcissism:

Every human being craves approval. This need for approval is driven by the ego in order to make us feel loved, important, powerful and in control, and perhaps even more importantly, to steer us away from any criticism, which can lead to feelings of inferiority. Adler (psychologist) believed that it was the pain of inferiority that motivated all human action to strive for a sense of superiority and perfection. This is natural, and is healthy narcissism in action, a normal defence that is essential for psychological health. It is this action that protects us from painful disappointments, failures, and keeps us away from feelings of helplessness. This boosting of our morale (Healthy Narcissism) is what motivates us to do better with our lives.

Healthy Narcissism:

However, with regard to narcissism, our structure of psychological well-being requires balance if it is to stay healthy; too little narcissism can be just as pathological as too much. Too little sense of narcissism leads to a lack of confidence and esteem. Without confidence and esteem we become fearful, and this exposes us to feelings of inferiority; whereas too much (Unhealthy Narcissism), we risk the likelihood of having inflated egos, and putting ourselves in danger where we may compromise social cohesion in order to make ourselves stand out. However, when one is balanced they have a healthy narcissism driving their ego forward. The person sports a confident attitude where they are aware of their strengths and weaknesses of their personality, and they have both the negative and positive aspects available to them. Because they “know their selves” they are able to have realistic expectations of their self, and their expectations fit comparatively with their abilities. They are fully aware of being separate from others, and they have faith in their own set of ideas and ideals. They use their healthy narcissism in a way that channels them in the direction of getting their needs meet, without having to disrespect or harm anybody else in the process. It is in this healthy or mature narcissism that there is balanced giving and taking, and it is this balanced giving and taking that allows a person to enter into mutually satisfying relationships that last the test of time. In this space there is a healthy respect for both the giver and the receiver to retain their uniqueness and independence with each other. Both are equal, so there is no need for any “one-up-manship” or “one-down-manship” in the relationship. Unhealthy narcissism on the other hand is in complete contrast.

Unhealthy Narcissism:

Where there is unhealthy narcissism, the individual manifests their behavior through a personality disorder, and therefore they are incapable of having a true reciprocal bond in any relationship. They will operate through either one-downmanship (the practice of outdoing others in a negative way), or one-upmanship (the practice of any assertion of superiority). For example, their need for one-down-man-ship is used when they have a need to idealize someone; whereas their one-upmanship is present when they need another person as a mirroring self-object (narcissistic supply) in order to confirm their specialness for them. This does not usually last long, because all self-objects are eventually devalued once they have lost their functional one-upmanship. They are then held in contempt, and discarded after there usefulness is used up. It is nothing personal, it is how the unhealthy narcissist treats everybody; he/she uses, abuses, and discards, then goes on to the next victim with no remorse what so ever.

[Phil]

Words lie on the surface of ENERGY geared to destroy inner faith, inter faith....and I could go on but you may know what I mean...AND you may have seen these used even here, even recently? We ALL need to stand up IMO and refuse to use this weapon or see its use and let it slide....on forums AND in our personal life where it is tricky. Those we know in the strangle holds of full blown narcissistic relationships may need special care.

I guess we all have our own examples...or are you implying there's specific attacks/people that would universally be accepted as high on the 10 scale that are acting in ways the unsuspecting should be aware of?

I'm fascinated with the topic, and deal with trying to determine where on the scale people important to my life stand, in order to remove or help those disrupting my growth. I learn a lot from forum interactions...where you never can be TOO certain.

This thread just reads weird to me though, it is like a passive-aggressive generalizing call for direct-open specific challenging subjective (or is objective?) behavior...maybe someone/something needs to be aired out??

[maggie]

Words lie on the surface of ENERGY geared to destroy inner faith, inter faith....and I could go on but you may know what I mean...AND you may have seen these used even here, even recently? We ALL need to stand up IMO and refuse to use this weapon or see its use and let it slide....on forums AND in our personal life where it is tricky. Those we know in the strangle holds of full blown narcissistic relationships may need special care.

I guess we all have our own examples...or are you implying there's specific attacks/people that would universally be accepted as high on the 10 scale that are acting in ways the unsuspecting should be aware of?

I'm fascinated with the topic, and deal with trying to determine where on the scale people important to my life stand, in order to remove or help those disrupting my growth. I learn a lot from forum interactions...where you never can be TOO certain.

This thread just reads weird to me though, it is like a passive-aggressive generalizing call for direct-open specific challenging subjective (or is objective?) behavior...maybe someone/something needs to be aired out??

No, not meant as passive aggressive but more asserting that sometimes on forums I see zingers thrown that IF they were in reply to my responses, would shut off my willingness to continue a "conversation". Here is an example of a style that I have seen in a group.

I used to work on a psychiatric unit. We were "close" co-workers. One dominating personality with "followers" started a trend. The ability to throw out 'funnies", zingers that were witty, sharp, pointed and sarcastic or even demeaning was considered humor. This woman who was the instigator was actually a bully. If she was "crossed" directly, she could be very nasty (but also self defeating but that is a long explanation). The whole way of communication was indirect in this "one-up" humor. I did not participate in the humor and she kind of considered me weak.

I did not feel weak BUT my mind just does not work that way and I was definitely at a "loss" with this kind of humor. In this case, I did feel weird and odd and yet did not want to communicate this way. The "Hits" did seem attacking because they did not provide any other than surface level opportunities to get the meaning clear...after all how was one to respond except with a similar "come back"? So the hit was followed by a run on to the next "thing". This STYLE is a personal "group" hit and run kind of communication and the group "went along" with it being "normal".

Also, I have seen some things thrown out in forums that could be aimed at shutting down others?
But I don't mean that every reply needs to be a tome. It is just a concern that we be AWARE OF WEAPONIZED WORDINGS.
And call it out so we are not left with lingering residuals.

Neon Blue... Thank you for that article. This continuum of healthy/unhealthy makes sense.

"The healthy narcissistic personality operates from a place of good will towards another person, while the unhealthy malignant disordered personality operates from a place of ill will towards another person, which naturally enough puts a chasm between them......"

"Both are equal, so there is no need for any “one-up-manship” or “one-down-manship” in the relationship."

[Naga_Fireball]

Thanks for sharing re the groups; it's good to know the traits to avoid in oneself and hopefully others if possible --

I'm guessing the harsh interaction was a "sport" to her, much as flirting at work or driving too fast, and to control such a person means thrusting them into a system of communication with very clear rules of engagement, complete with turn taking and at length feedback. I.e. 1 on 1 psychotherapy.

You mentioned her self defeating side. This suggests a lack of self respect and does explain part of why she is or was on the defensive (pre-emptive strike?); a basic and deeply ingrained distrust assuaged only by her habit of verbal "rough trade".

If I wasn't insane myself I'd become a psychologist or something, after all what greater mystery than the heart of darkness?

@_@