The Test

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Naga_Fireball
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The Test

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Big grain of salt.
But let me gamble, go out on a limb.

The big gripe of some luciferians about the whole Genesis story is quite legitimate. We recollect the legendary expulsion from eden as a terrible sin, a wrong that our supposedly perfect father would never knowingly inflict on his creation.


I know this is a bit US centric. But aside from trump and hillary, police shootings, etc... The biggest issue in our country is the number of homeless.

This number is skyrocketing each season in some areas. Yet, speaking of area, we have more arable square feet in the USA than most nations per capita.

How then are we as a nation not providing for our poor?

A hundred years ago our great grandparents were going to school in a single room more often than not. And in spite of the meagerness, it was plentiful.

Because of the hope. Earnest hard work and expectation of self improvement.

Some of our modern homeless are college graduates, military veterans, and profoundly disabled individuals.


Yet the wealthy cut them off and the poor regard them with more fear than any cafe bomb or pressure cooker.

It breaks my heart.

It was over 100° here part of this week and we have homeless without dayrooms or micro housing.


Our city is knowingly killing these people, subjugating them to terrible conditions. I saw a person with Downs syndrome today sitting next to the street under a tre in 96°. Last night a woman surrounded by totes hailed me on my bike outside the YWCA and I was afraid to stop.

Afraid she would need too much.


What if expulsion from the garden, Gods one terrible sin, was a test.

Would we repeat the mistake or learn from it. Would we dare to be bigger than God.

I have a feeling we are being watched and judged by many of the spirits and this will, as many of you say, be a turbulent time.
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper
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Re: The Test

Post by Hermit »

Re-read your Genesis. When you've re-read the entire text, let me know and I'd be happy to address this issue fully. :)
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Re: The Test

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Oh, we're not going to find an elephant rifle big enough to take on God by tooling around in the first book of the bible.

I think my last complete reading was in jail in 2012, my recall may be rustier than yours, but rest assured, I've read genesis a few times.

Also before dropping out of college, i had a professor who was good enough to tell the class that at least four groups of scholars compiled that particular book.

Like literally roomfuls of Jews not one or two prophets. In the beginning was a brainstorm apparently.

Sure wish there were some verses on how to help the poor and not just take revenge.
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper
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Re: The Test

Post by Hermit »

My dearest friend Naga,

For starters, most conventional theologians don't look at the first part of Genesis as actual fact. They see it as allegorical. Think about how as children we have this innocent kind of way of looking at the world, and an appeal to the way the world actually is. Then, we want something, so we take it. And that innocence is changed, modified, and we are wounded by our actions. Most "luciferians" that I've encountered have turned around and said that wounding was the fault of what they wanted. I would say instead, that wounding was the fault of the wanting and the taking without fully understanding the consequences.

You'll also recall in the Genesis narrative that God threatened to kill Adam and Eve if they ate that fruit. But God didn't. He instead put them out into the world to work for their own lives. Which is what most parents have to do. And you'll also find the curious introit where mankind is created, and then this garden appears. Although I would say that yes, it is possible that various authors wrote Genesis and have to admit that my knowledge on this matter is really limited, it's interesting how these stories run together. First everything is created, including man. Then a garden is created, and a 'special man and woman' are placed in the garden. They are given one really simple rule. It's not, don't cross the river at midnight on a full moon, it's not 'you have to weed everything every day', it's 'don't eat this fruit of knowledge of good and evil'.

You know? When I read that scripture, and in my shoes I kind of have to pretty frequently ;), something in me says God was using reverse psychology as part of a way to get Adam and Eve to grow up. And if this part of Genesis is indeed allegorical, wouldn't it make sense that God would want these two crazy kids to eventually grow up and go make gardens of their own?

So from my point of view, it's not a wrong inflicted by a perfect Father on His creation: it's an allegorical story about the need for that which is created to mature, grow, and become somewhat independent, sustaining, responsible, adult.

We then come to this problem of homelessness. Next post. ;)
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Re: The Test

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First things first. I'm unpacking your argument, not you. Shezbeth was really good at understanding this concept until it got in the way of his ego, and I know you're not that much of an egoist so I know you're not going to take it as a personal attack ( which it isn't! :) )

In any argument, there has to be a clear definition of terms. It's sort of like building a foundation. When that term isn't correctly, or is poorly, constructed it makes the rest of the argument tenuous. So it's really important that when one makes a sweeping statement, they have enough to back up that claim. My issue is this: homelessness, like a being that which none greater can be conceived, cannot clearly be judged because we simply do not have the ability to even conceive the fullness of the problem when we look at the concept of that problem without it's individual components. Let me put it this way. We can understand the concept of a cube. It's a 3-dimensional square! If you close your eyes you're going to be able to see a cube. Now close your eyes and tell me what ten billion cubes look like. It's easier to understand the concept than to conceptualize each individual cube right? (ps: that's not my example, it's St. Augustine of Hippo's. He's one of my heroes.)

Like trying to define God in that way, trying to define homelessness in a country like the United States or Canada is just as difficult a problem to conceptualize as a collective.

Let me ask you a question. What would you be prepared to do to help just one homeless person? Would you be willing to go out and look for someone who was homeless? Would you be willing to cook food for them and take it to them? Would you be willing to take them into a restaurant and buy them a meal, share it with them talk with that person, get to know them and their story? Would you take them into your home, give them a place to sleep? Would you let them use your bathroom to take a bath, wash?

I would say that 99% of people would rather either walk past, or toss a coin and feel better about themselves.

You ask why people are not providing for the poor.

Beloved Naga...You said you were afraid to stop because they might need too much.

There is your answer. That fear is what's stopping things from changing. That fear is what creates the blame, the finger pointing because in all reality? It's easier to blame and point a finger than it is to buy a case of bottled water.

All those two people might have needed was for you to say hello, smile, and continue on your way. Is that too much?

I've edited this post four times now, this is the last time. I grow a garden because I love it, but also because I know there are people who can't get fresh veg that love it and would take it if they could. There's a little old 90 year old lady, Lillian, who can't afford much. Saturday, I went into my garden which isn't producing very much, picked some dill, a hand full of beans, a hand full of peas, three pathetically small beets, four green tomatoes, a huge whack of mint, and a few onions. It filled a grocery bag, and it was enough for Lillian. She was elated at the groceries, but she was even more elated that someone would think about her, and spend time talking with her for a few moments. I think she needs the human connection more than the veg, but I know the veg helps and the veg is good for her.

The beautiful reality is that it can in fact change. We can in fact *evolve* to a better perspective where we do help people. But it has to start somewhere. It has to begin by one person turning off their computer, stepping up and away from their chair, realizing that the apple has been eaten, and life has to go on as painful and as angry and as frustrating as that is. Growing up is knowing you have to do what you have to do, even and especially if it's the right thing, even and especially if you don't want to do it.

Then when you get past that hurdle, you'll realize as I did that God never left your side. God left the garden with you, and with me.

The "lucyfairyans" don't want you to know, or to believe that. You asked a lot of questions in that post. I have a question for you now. Why don't they want you to believe that?

Much love, friendship, and respect.
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Re: The Test

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Dear Hermit. gawd I wish this Was a computer and not a phone. Our process is being retarded by the connection. Sort of like pen pals.
Re Shezbeth & even Pris. Lol, I wish they would return to EE.

...

Firstly, yes I understand what you are saying. Regarding consciousness changing and whether or not to take genesis literally.


Personally? When i accepted that the book didn't hold much water, or when I understood that is what these professors think, it damaged my faith.

I did not see the point of open interpretation of the absolute word of God. If it was absolute , to me, it needed to be literal.


I was not yet aware of the ways in which countercultures and suppressed religions etc had to paraphrase and even hide their beliefs, sometimes like bones inside the body of another faith.



...

Re the homelessness in walla walla. For maybe a month now, someone has kept a special interest group from building planned micro housing at madison park. There was a vote in favor of the housing and yey some rich piece of shit has his or her foot in the door. Blocking the project that was already planned funded and OKed ...

Those of us with homeless friends (unlike the woman who yelled Hey at me in the dark like a hooker Lol) are sad that they spent most of the heat wave outside. Cities like Seattle at least try to maintain a real dayroom. Churches dont just open their doors. They have third party properties where all people can feel welcome and not just christians. @@

Wink. Nothing against them ? Us? !!

Regarding helping the homeless. The #1 best way I've seen aside from being friendly is giving particpating churches and action groups money specifically designated for homeless.


Many of the ones i talk to are alcoholics and beer is not cheap. We have lots of bars here but those skinflints probably won't give free drinks to them.


Also I'm not on birth control and have only one lockbox in my place. There are physical limits to what I can do. But continuing to bring light to their need , giving when possible, and yes, feeding the homeless.

I dont go regularly because we have a group that feeds them at the bus station and a Christian aid center that does meals. But I have given food. Onr time the guy left a whole contsiner of yogurt to rot. He did not want the water bottle either.

...

Re: genesis, I've heard a few luciferians say that the garden and trees are pathways of the mind and the serpent is the inconvenience of waking the kundalini. Lol

And the flaming sword blocking the gate is the pineal? Strange eh?
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper
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Re: The Test

Post by Hermit »

Why walk when you can fly? :)
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Re: The Test

Post by Naga_Fireball »

We could take a boat.
I just had this weird visual of Lady Liberty.
How she stands with the torch held high, the law and the stories close to her heart for comfort, but the truth and love and welcoming light held high.

She is a bit luciferian with her torch and pomegranate crown. . .

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".

A strange message.
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper
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Re: The Test

Post by Naga_Fireball »

If you insist, i will read it again.

BUT

I must ask, IF Genesis can't be taken literally how do we quantify our faith.

And not to mention.
Revelation.

...

Pretty much ThE excuse for WW3.

And I don't even know what to say about the CERN people. They are able to scare the crap out of "the devil himself". Lol

Let's just end it all
Giant Meteor 2016
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper
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Re: The Test

Post by Hermit »

I didn't say you can't take it literally. I'm saying that you have to use your discernment, read it slowly, think about what you're reading, reflect on it. Lectio Divina is a great practice in this case.

Then...you read it in context with the rest.

If you take it literally, you have to be prepared to defend the literalness of it. But take this into account: Even Jesus used parables. So it makes sense that some stories could be read as parables in the Old Testament, no?

:D
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