Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

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Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

People don't often openly outright talk about the grand similarities between the Greek god Hermes, the Egyptian mythos of the shepherd god concurrent with the construction of Giza pyramid, and Jesus, not to mention the rarely mentioned but nevertheless important thief on the cross.


It was while reading a 100+ year old book on Giza (Cheops) pyramid and the reign of Knuum Khufu etc that i stumbled across a myth of the time, an apparent wandering shepherd who blessed the Giza site with his presence and shared characteristics with the biblical Melchizedek.

In Wikipedia I found a greek hermetic belief that describes hermes as the one who bears the lamb, literally Hermes who carries the lamb in their language.


The tradition involves choosing a beautiful young man to carry a small lamb or ram around the perimeter of the city wall to cleanse it and protect it from plague.

Those familiar with the bible will recall that the thief on the cross was very similar to this depiction of hermes, as the thief identified christ as the son of God and was told he would enter paradise. Effectively reminding jesus himself of his eternal nature as a human soul with omnipotent powers, shepherding the Christ through hell.

It is interesting that in the bible itself we see echoes and living examples of the pagan gods helping the Christ. From moses to the thief to john the revelator, we see fascinating Egyptian and Greek influence that goes deeper than human fad.



These are real spiritual echoes manifesting in our plane and astounding to observe...
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Some notes that I left out:

Hermes is depicted as the inventor of music and the rustler of Apollos cattle when he is a day old infant.

He also has power to change history, if you read the story of how he returns the solar cattle (they walk backwards!). This reminds me a lot of biblical conflicts involving the sun standing still in the sky or the sundial traveling backward at the behest of the prophets.


Hermes as a living figure, Hermes Trimegistus, means Hermes who is Thrice Great, again invoking multiple futures and crossroads.

It is interesting to note that there were three crosses that afternoon on Golgotha. And darkness descended for three days.

Not to mention Golgotha, the place of the skull, was considerably outside the city walls, echoing the worship and ritual of Hermes who carries the Lamb.

It was here, nailed to a cross like cathide on a barn door, that the thief on the cross made a joyful noise to the Lord.

Right when the darkness was about to fall, when all hope seemed lost, that is when Hermes looked over at the victim who was complaining and mocking the Christ, and he said pretty much STFU they are killing an innocent man.

The earthbound gods understood that any number of them deserved to die like the Christ, but that the creator God had sent a fragile, terribly innocent, and on the flip side overwhelmingly powerful example of a decent life supported by goodness as well as intellect.

You might have heard the term "the other light" before, in reference to the lesser gods relative to Christian belief. That might be ripped off from Left Behind (yuck).




Another tidbit that has basis in fact actually is the cultural significance of Cain and Abel in Egypt.

Apparently when agriculture became a thing, egyptians popularized the concept of putting down herdsmen as second class and highly esteeming fruit of the soil.

That is what makes the story of Knuum Khufu and the goatherder so fascinating. Like the good Samaritan, apparently the shepherd of Giza was a better person than all the grain eaters put together.

It is interesting how on the basis of diet there was a schism between Egypt and israel.


Oh . and another thing. Knuum was the god of clay, the river, and the shaper of children. Like the potter at christianity's wheel, Knuum was depicted as the gatekeeper of life and with a ram's horns.

It is no accident that the Lamb who was slain and the shaper of children share the symbol and characteristic of a god who survives his own sacrifice.
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

P.s. then we can tie Wotanism into this and also talk about Mithra and the Fisher King.

As Odin is depicted as surviving his own death as a sacrifice in a tree...!
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Many churches even within christianity itself overstress rules regarding doctrines and dominion over physical things (and your sovereign thoughts!!).

If you look at many of the statements attributed to Christ Jesus, you will see an extreme compassion for the humsn condition itself, individual suffering, and the enjoyment of life on earth through selflessness.

It is not about acquiring tech or ego brownie points in some gauzy heavenly future. A good christian will say "may I diminish so that he may increase", just like Galadriel in lotr when she turns down ultimate physical power.


Power over others means nothing if we lack the measure of ourselves. Sorry to sound cliche, but the cross is a pretty good measurement of the ego, and I know that I fall short.


I am not a good christian. I am more of a sometimer. But may I diminish so that he may increase.
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Back toHermes and the solar cattle. Most of us realize that the cross is and was a symbol of the sun. And ironically part of what made crucifixion awful was exposure to the elements.

Because "beautiful upon the mountainside are the feet of those who bring Good News", ie the messenger as a valued servant and friend, and the fact that he paid for his crimes by declaring (like king David himself) the joy and music of the lord, and the fact that he diminished so that Christ might increase, hermes can be said to be alive and well today.



Could Hermes have been the Greek foreshadowing of the Holy Spirit himself?

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the Word was God. Without him nothing was made that is made.


No coincidence that early religions focused on the honeybee.


:)
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Would it be fair to point out, Christianity tends to enrage its enemies not merely because of the establishment or dogma but because it is the people who suffer the most to have it, who are least likely to deny their faith?

"If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold On!'"

~Rudyard Kipling, IF
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Hermit »

Suggested Reading:

"Christianity and the Hellenistic World" by the late Dr. Ronald H. Nash, professor of history at Western Kentucky State University and Director of graduate studies in philosophy and religion.

I think you'll find once you read that book, the idea of Hermes having anything to do with Christian tradition, even though they may appear to have similarities, is pretty much dealt with as impossible. Nash will lead you through why, and it's generally a pretty good read diving into a lot of history at the time of the founding of the Christian faith as well as the mystery religions of Greece and Egypt.

I snagged it off Amazon for a buck. ;D
Ingressum instruas, progressum dirigas, egressum compleas.

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

Thank you. I can see why Christians would deny a link as it could potentially invalidate aspects of their Belief System.

However for the Greeks I'm thinking it is a source of pride, helping another church survive the romans.

I doubt I'd give up my quest over one author, but if I run into the book I'll grab it.

;)
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Hermit »

Not so much deny a link, as demonstrate why the belief doesn't stand on solid ground.

We don't deny the similarities. In fact, I think I'd be more suspicious if there wasn't anything in common! The difference between our views is I see this as common threads of goodness, just brighter in one aspect and dimmer in another.

I've read the peer reviewed stuff Naga. The research I've done suggests that there are very strong similarities, but it stops there. Read the book! At the very least, if you do disagree with what Nash says we can continue the conversation and maybe break through some new ideas.
Ingressum instruas, progressum dirigas, egressum compleas.

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Re: Hermes, The Thief on the Cross, and Jesus

Post by Naga_Fireball »

It feels strange to be referring anyone here to Anne Rice. But it seems she did a bit of research on sect violence in writing Memnoch.

She says that during the Crusades, Roman Catholic Armies were permitted to slaughter Greek Orthodox Christians.



I do tend to be a generalist but cannot help wondering if I have encountered unintentional historial bias on the part of my wise & hermetical critic


@@

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Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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