Meditation with challenges

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Eelco
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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

Lol sometimes..

This time my life is already in berzerk mode So I actually started the practice to get some grip.
Yes It is the Samatha I am trying to accomplish Well up to the first Jhana for now anyway.
The Buddhist path is very clear in its instruction. It's when you read the different experiences and commentaries where doubt and confusion seems to set in. I have been listening to a 4 part podcast by Thannisaro Bhikku .
http://www.audiodharma.org/series/16/talk/1869/
Which talks about it somewhat.

The Jhana's are 4 and then up to eight specific mindstates brought about by concentration meditation. That is concentrating on one object settling the mind in a place of stillnes. These states have very specific properties and can therefor (I hope) act as guidelines.
As you know I did my vipassana retreat almost 2 years ago and found the dry insight path a bit to uncomfortable to maintain.
I hope getting to first Jhana or at least part way there I can use the properties of that mindstate to propel me further into insight territory.

The stages leading up to "enlightenment" Are well laid out and seemingly attainable. especially with a concentrated mind.
Or so I now choose/tend to belief.

With Love
Eelco

The loose instructions I am trying to follow for now are thus:
Sit comfortably (i let go of half lotus and the like in preference of a chair. I switch between the 2) Try to focus on one spot where the breath passes.
I used to check the rising and falling of my belly. now I focus more on the traditional anapanata spot. between the upper lip and the nostrils.
There see each breath pass as it goes in and out. I try not to follow the breath. So I become aware of the full breath body as it passes the anapanata spot.

For now I tend to find it easier to extend my meditation as opposed to Vipassana where my focus is on whatever presents itself as most predominant and try to discern the 3 characteristics.

Anyway from there each time when my mind wanders I gently guide it back to the annapana spot.

The aim and promis is that the mind stills. As I understand it this is not something that happens by itself but needs training.
Using the breathbody as an anchor. with it relax deeper and deeper and learn discern what help to become more peaceful and what hinders this process.
The next step woul be when concentration is well established gently find a place that feels pleasant. extend the pleasant feeling all over the body.
It is said that first Jhana will happen then.
4 factors define it according to the sutta's.
vitakka - thinking
vicara - more thinking, examining
piti - rapture, glee, zest
sukha - happiness
The abbidhamma defines a fifth factor of 1st Jhana.
ekaggata or one-pointedness.

I thing it's that final addition which makes 1st jhana so controversial as being hard to accomplish.
The pa auk sadayaw school makes the mastery of the jhanas probably harder to attain by expecting the one-pointedness and nimmita to be sustained for 3 hours.

The rapture and happiness fall away as one moves up through the jhanas making way for equanimity.

Well first let's get to the first shall I?
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Re: Meditation with challenges

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[The Buddha tells of how, after realizing that austerities are not the path to the
end of suffering, he reflected as follows:]
“I t h o u g ht:
‘I recall once, when my father the
Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose apple tree, then quite secluded
from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities

I entered & remained in the first jhana:
rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
Could that be the path to Awakening?’ Then there was the consciousness following on
being mindful [satanusari-viññana]
:
‘That is the path to Awakening.’
I thought: ‘So why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities?’
I thought: ‘I am no longer afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with
unskillful mental qualities.


MN 3 6

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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

I like a meditation thread emerge in the silly section..
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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index. ... verybreath
With Each & Every Breath: A Guide to Meditation. (revised Oct. 19, 2013) A new breath meditation manual by Thanissaro Bhikkhu drawing on two sources: the Buddha’s own set of instructions on how to use the breath in training the mind, and Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo’s method of breath meditation — which builds on the Buddha’s instructions, explaining in detail many of the points that the Buddha left in condensed form. A page has been added to this site with download links to all of the .mp3 dhammatalks referenced in this manual:
And now I shall shut up about it for a while...

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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Blue Rising »

No, Eelco please don't shut up about it. I really enjoy this stuff. I like to hear about your experiences, and this is great information. In fact, I think I will pass along much of it to my daughter, who has decided to take a look at Buddhism. I don't see her becoming a Buddhist, but it is great to see her investigating. She has a spiritual Self, and I am so excited she is looking for it.

The only exposure I have to anything breath-and-meditation related is Osho's Book of Secrets. There are a couple of things about the breath, there. One instruction Shiva gave Devi was (as I try to recall, knowing full well I will butcher this) to watch the gap between the breaths. There is power in the in between space, I can touch that sometimes. It is almost like being transported somewhere.

Ha, I thought I was going to relay some of my thoughts, but sometimes I can't find words in human language to describe my experiences. So, I will leave it at that. At any rate, please keep sharing!

Eelco wrote:http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index. ... verybreath
With Each & Every Breath: A Guide to Meditation. (revised Oct. 19, 2013) A new breath meditation manual by Thanissaro Bhikkhu drawing on two sources: the Buddha’s own set of instructions on how to use the breath in training the mind, and Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo’s method of breath meditation — which builds on the Buddha’s instructions, explaining in detail many of the points that the Buddha left in condensed form. A page has been added to this site with download links to all of the .mp3 dhammatalks referenced in this manual:
And now I shall shut up about it for a while...

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Eelco
Do not fashion me a maiden who needs saving from the dragons. I am the Dragon. And I will eat you whole.
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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIrI80og8c[/youtube]

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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

Breath meditation.

For a breath meditation that helps me to stick to the practice I found the the below mp3 very helpful.
Most browsers will play the mp3 if you click on it, but some may need to right click and download it.
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/guid ... 40min).mp3

It comes from the following site, which contains most if not all recorded and written teachings of Thanissaro Bhikku
http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html

After having spend many years with different meditative modalities I find this guided meditation refreshing in a sense that it leaves you room to experiment with the breath. For the first 20 minutes Thanissaro guides you to stay with the breath, without clamping down on it. The suggestion is to take a few long and deep breaths and then see, is this way of breathing comfortable? If not change it. make it shorter, shallower, deeper etc. Play around until you find a breath pattern that feels comfortable. Then slowly Thanissaro guides you to use the breath in different bodyparts. Take a look at the breath there, see if you find any patterns of tension and then use the breath to ease those tense patterns with the help of a broad definition of the breath. Not something that needs to be pulled down through the nose, but with the idea breath has direct acces through that area through the skin. As if that part is breathing by itself. After about 20 minutes the suggestion is to either do another cycle through the body and address any patterns you may have missed. Or find a spot where the breath feels particularly comfy and settle the mind there. If you find the mind wanders... Just bring it back gently. At the end there's a few suggestion on how to leave the meditation. If you want the same page as the above meditation has the same meditation without the suggestions at the end, for when you just want to stay with the breath for as long as you like and leave at your own pace.

For myself I've made a small playlist consisting of a 5 minute Metta meditation, then the breath meditation and I close with another Metta meditation.
For the first time I haven't felt this 50 minute cycle has felt like a chore after a few days. Thanissaro has a very pleasant voice and his suggestions don't seem to "force" the breath in any way. Allowing for a very pleasant experience in calming the body and the mind.

The reason for me to start with the Metta is to get my mind in the right mood for meditation as I have found that many times when I drop into meditation from the hustle and bustle in daily life I loose my sense of why I am meditating. The Metta reminds me I'm doing this to be kind to myself and to others.

Yes my goal still is getting the mind concentrated enough so it can be nourished by "soft" Jhana states. But the way Thanissaro explains those in his talks and the way to get there finally seem within anybodies grasp. Instead of trying to settle the mind on the annapati spot and hang on for dear life..

Enjoy if you want. Or leave it if you think it's not your cup of tea.
As it's in the silly section play lightheartedly with it.

May every being find True Happiness
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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... .html#just
"Just Right" Concentration

OCTOBER 4, 1960

When you meditate, you have to think. If you don't think, you can't meditate, because thinking forms a necessary part of meditation. Take jhana, for instance. Use your powers of directed thought to bring the mind to the object, and your powers of evaluation to be discriminating in your choice of an object. Examine the object of your meditation until you see that it's just right for you. You can choose slow breathing, fast breathing, short breathing, long breathing, narrow breathing, broad breathing; hot, cool, or warm breathing; a breath that goes only as far as the nose, a breath that goes only as far as the base of the throat, a breath that goes all the way down to the heart. When you've found an object that suits your taste, catch hold of it and make the mind one, focused on a single object. Once you've done this, evaluate your object. Direct your thoughts to making it stand out. Don't let the mind leave the object. Don't let the object leave the mind. Tell yourself that it's like eating: Put the food in line with your mouth, put your mouth in line with the food. Don't miss. If you miss and go sticking the food in your ear, under your chin, in your eye, or on your forehead, you'll never get anywhere in your eating.
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Re: Meditation with challenges

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So what happens when I meditate.
Usually i am busy. Busy with focusing on the breath. Bringing it back when I find i'm lost in thought or just zoned out for some reason.
At other times I'm busy with trying to breath in way that is comfortable, unrestricted. Usually i am sensing/feeling for tension and either direct the breath towards it. Telling/sensing myself relaxing the tension. Telling/asking myself what kind of breath would feel especially gratifying right now and let my body take in one of those. Sometimes I try to see the breath move in through the pores of the skin directly to the part of the body I am focusing on. That "trick" is very helpful in my case to ease up on the breath and let it breathe itself.

Some times though. everything just clicks. And somehow my awareness suddenly finds itself silent in the midst of things.
It is hard to explain. Do you remember those 3d picture books. where you have to stare at them in a certain way and suddenly a 3d image comes to the fore? It's sort of like that feeling. Here you are trying "stuff" to get the mind to settle down and suddenly it's there. Peaceful observing the hustle and bustle of what you are doing.

If I have to put a label on it, I'd say it's what is known as access concentration/ It is definitely some altered state, but no where near a description of the Jhana.

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Re: Meditation with challenges

Post by Eelco »

“Let me give you a wonderful Zen practice.
Wake up in the morning...look in the mirror, and laugh at yourself.”
― Bernie Glassman,
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