Employing the Dark Side

"Evil is a source of moral intelligence in the sense that we need to learn from our shadow, from our dark side, in order to be good."
-John Bradshaw
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Shezbeth
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

Post by Shezbeth »

The "Oh, you were so right!" Tactic

This is a method which I have employed effectively, and when dealing with a suitable opponent will give an immediate indication of the measure of one's opponent. Opponents will readily employ the 'You're wrong' method, and in many cases will not be polite about it (I realize I can observed to be 'not polite', but the lack of politeness I am referring to is more in the realm of subtle to overt abuse). When one finds themselves being so targeted, I find it best to take a step back. The 'reason' (professed) can be legitimate or it can be illusory; to each their own. In any case however, after a (to their preference) step back, one re-approaches their opponent from a (admittedly disingenuous) position of "After thinking about it, I can see that your position is better", or however one wants to phrase it.

This tactic operates on the opponent's pride, which as I suggested above is usually overblown and not want to see any accedence as being duplicitous. If you do it right, one's opponent will conclude that you have been seduced by, bought into, or are towing the line of their position. The purpose is to lull them into a false sense of security, from which they will be more likely to make increasing mistakes and gaffes, which can then be placed in one's 'deck' for the ultimate denouement.

Again to reiterate, it is about seeming dumber than your opponent, in line with the phrase "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".

It is also important to watch out for the employ of this tactic BY one's opponent. When a person vehemently opposes you and 'suddenly or inexplicably' changes their stance to align with yours, this MAY be (but is not always) evidence of the person seeking to 'fall back to a more 'stable' position' from which to renew their manipulations. Again, this is not always the case, but in my experience one 'could do worse than' be skeptical of a sudden 180 (moreso?).
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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dupe post :o :shock:
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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Off Topic
Being better at the game than one's opponent is precisely the point. If one knows (TRULY knows, not just conjecture) a manner in which sociopathy/etc. can be eliminated from the aggregate consciousness, then by all means. Meanwhile, I will employ methods that allow me to (largely) avoid getting stepped on by those who are want to do so. Further, I will disseminate the techniques I employ with efficacy.

I request that since your position stands in opposition to the use of the 'dark side', and since this thread is about unveiling techniques OF the 'dark side' that you try to stay on point.

We're talking about social interaction, not thermonuclear war. Nice exaggeration tho,....
Alright, my point is in opposition to you, and I made it...I hope using deception to "win" or combat or whatever you trying to do works out...I've made clear that I never seen it do anything but create more games, I think a lot of the "tactics" you talk about employing would be more effective coming from a different angle--truth rather than the "dark side" ...enjoy them games

Ps- the analogy you took to be as "exaggeration" was in fact suggesting only engaging in "winnable" games, that are honestly contrived as such at the outset...thermonuclear war (especially by a kid on a computer, with more responsibility than he can imagine) was just intended as an anology for a game no one wins (and based on lies)...not total annihilation

...so anyway: you are right ;) you win this game...I'm out
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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....
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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Hmmmm. Claiming to dislike and/or not play the game while playing the game,... a curious disingenuity Phil. You know full well that expressing opinions is NOT the purpose of this thread; Your sig?

I can't change the game. You can't change the game. I (or you) can only win or lose the game to whomever one is in opposition to, and THAT is my main point.
You try my patience,... make your choice! - The Phantom of the Opera
... and yes, trying the opponent's patience is another effective strategy I will be going into detail on.
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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...cleaning my poo off the wall
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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off topic...
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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....
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

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.....
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Re: Employing the Dark Side

Post by Shezbeth »

Allow me to suggest that this forum could benefit from a 'facepalm' smiley.

<cracks his knuckles>

DIRECT from the OP:
Shezbeth wrote: This thread then is for individuals - like myself - to indicate social and interpersonal techniques (genjutsu) that are useful in opposition to unsuspecting (or ENTIRELY suspecting) 'victors'.
Sorry, but to me that seems quite a clear and precise statement; now then.
Phil wrote: So anyway, even engaging in this exercise...besides showing you what I'm trying to talk about and how it's on topic, is to bring it back to the movie reference to illustrate my main and important and hopefully on-topic point: I believe what you're doing here is validating something closer to thermonuclear war than chess (which is more complex than tic-tac-toe, which is only winnable by deception, even if that's the ignorance of the opponent)
Lovely, but as indicated above remains off topic.
Phil wrote:I personally hate chess, it's too militaristic, very rigid in what choices you can make. But I see how it appeals to a lot of people and makes it a good metaphor...it seems to me that a master having a thorough understanding can only lose to an opponent with lesser knowledge/skills by "luck"...so it's appealing to those who love to win, or play better people to learn how to always win
... and again,....
Phil wrote:What I'm trying to do is share my disdain for the winning/losing paradigm, to show that maybe the "positive" emotion we feel from defeating an opponent is a lie we tell ourselves to keep us addicted to games. I feel that it's only positive when we learn more from it beyond how to win.
... need I say it?
Phil wrote:In other words, rather than "ends justifying means", I am an adversary to that idea...I truly believe and am trying to demonstrate that the means always create the end, at least as far as I've seen in this experience…and I engage here not to win, but in hopes to be shown where my thinking is wrong: to learn.
<sigh>
Phil wrote:So if I were to be honest instead of playing your by posting the Wargames meme, I'd have chosen poker, not chess. It is a contrived game where it's clearer that deceiving the other person is a valid tactic...and I suck at it because I refuse to give to much energy in understanding what makes opponent tick enough to understand how they're lying (conversely I love "Survivor" because ultimately I believe the best at that actually do that with their time on the island)

Anyway, I disclosed I originally chose the handle "donk" for PA as I used the "donkypunch1" choice in my youth for everything...it's a horrid joke of a sexual abuse that was a pun for what I wanted to the US democrats (donkey is their symbol) when I believed in that game (us natl politics) back when I started posting

I kept it cuz means a shitty poker player, according to the parlance of our times...which I was when I switched to debating republicans to playing online poker whenever I could. And why I love it now, and keep it in the forums where elements of what I see as an important game...is that the term is always thrown at "donks" by players that consider themselves masters (or at least way better/knowledgable than them)...at people who win hands when they "shouldn't".

That's the beauty of poker, why it's honestly classified as gambling. You can know every statistic...even be able to read your opponents mind and know their cards...and still rarely be a point where the next card to come out can make your unbeatable hand just as shitty as the worst possible ones you could have been originally dealt.

To me, those that truly understand poker know that their mastery does not necessarily mean that they're skills and knowledge can guarantee "victory". In fact, the best professionals have all been broke over and over...at least as many times as they've been millionaires. And I think the best people...and it was you pointed out that we're talking "social interactions" here, are the ones that knowing the tried and true methods of "winning" is not as important as comprehending why.

I am trying to take that belief (my paragraph above here), and projecting it outward. I am the donk, the "Fool", that approaches the table not to get all the chips, but to enjoy the game, knowing that winning will only serve to make me want to play the game more. I embrace that "dark side" of me there....it's fun to win. But I never play to make money...I choose not to learn exploit the game for personal advantage

In real life, I am using these games to learn how to show how much so much of our lives exactly that...individual choices made with "more mastery" of the games used against the "opponents" to win. I don't think life HAS to be like that. I think we can create a reality where games stay on the poker and we create other things more important/fun/interesting than being better than our adversary
You are most entitled to your opinion, positions, etc.; to that end I find that the best course for this obviously exhaustive 'verbal' diarrhea would be:

Sod off and start your own opinion-based thread,... no one is stopping you. :mrgreen:
THIS however, is NOT that thread.

P.S. No, you're NOT sorry. ^_~
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