Employing the Light Side

"Evil is a source of moral intelligence in the sense that we need to learn from our shadow, from our dark side, in order to be good."
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Phil
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Phil »

Shezbeth wrote:No need to discuss. What you have described is a perfectly valid perception/position. There are positions that agree with it - that are also equally valid - and there are those that contest (likewise).

Here's a simpler way of looking at it.

The light side can free one of the dark side, the dark side can free one of the light side. Each 'side' sees its self as freedom from the other; both are correct, and both are incorrect.
We''re calling them sides, can you please describe how you actually see them? what they actually are (to you), rather than describing in relation to the other. I don't get a lot of meaning out of your position/perception as it is here.
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Re: Employing the Light Side

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Hi Phil. I'm thinking the idea here is there are no sides to begin with. Thinking in terms of 'sides' is basically a mental trap.

Consider this: there are no absolutes.
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Re: Employing the Light Side

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Than what does employing one side or the other mean? Both threads are meaningless?
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Pris »

Phil wrote:Than what does employing one side or the other mean? Both threads are meaningless?
The threads are far from meaningless (meaningless is another absolute)... At the very least, the threads are messing with our heads. I'm enjoying both threads immensely.
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Shezbeth »

Well Pris, if you feel something is worth discussing, a good way to go about it would be to discuss, rather than getting huffy because I don't feel there is any discussion to be had, at least not as the idea was rendered. ^_~

IMO, there is always two ways to see 'a thing'. One can - and should - see it as a singular unity, a whole. Conversely, one can - and should - see it as a duality, a pair of opposites.

In the first method, the 'poles' are seen as variance on a theme, and in the second method they are seen as counter-parties, mirrors of one another (whether direct, indirect, etc.).

In the first one begins to see degrees of separation, in the second one sees that there is unity in the opposition and mirror.

In the first, one begins to appreciate the inherent duality to the unity, and in the second one sees the inherent unity in the duality.

That is my opinion.
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Re: Employing the Light Side

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Shezbeth wrote:Well Pris, if you feel something is worth discussing, a good way to go about it would be to discuss, rather than getting huffy because I don't feel there is any discussion to be had, at least not as the idea was rendered. ^_~

IMO, there is always two ways to see 'a thing'. One can - and should - see it as a singular unity, a whole. Conversely, one can - and should - see it as a duality, a pair of opposites.

In the first method, the 'poles' are seen as variance on a theme, and in the second method they are seen as counter-parties, mirrors of one another (whether direct, indirect, etc.).

In the first one begins to see degrees of separation, in the second one sees that there is unity in the opposition and mirror.

In the first, one begins to appreciate the inherent duality to the unity, and in the second one sees the inherent unity in the duality.

That is my opinion.
Eeh... It's all been discussion to me so far. You're just being too... touchy. ~_^

Oh, gawd. You're going to confuse Phil with all this. Mentioning duality implies we're dealing in absolutes. 'Unity in the duality'... isn't that an oxymoron?
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Hermit »

Pris wrote:.
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Hi Phil. I'm thinking the idea here is there are no sides to begin with. Thinking in terms of 'sides' is basically a mental trap.

Consider this: there are no absolutes.
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Really?

Is that an absolute?
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Hermit »

Shezbeth wrote:Well Pris, if you feel something is worth discussing, a good way to go about it would be to discuss, rather than getting huffy because I don't feel there is any discussion to be had, at least not as the idea was rendered. ^_~

IMO, there is always two ways to see 'a thing'. One can - and should - see it as a singular unity, a whole. Conversely, one can - and should - see it as a duality, a pair of opposites.

In the first method, the 'poles' are seen as variance on a theme, and in the second method they are seen as counter-parties, mirrors of one another (whether direct, indirect, etc.).

In the first one begins to see degrees of separation, in the second one sees that there is unity in the opposition and mirror.

In the first, one begins to appreciate the inherent duality to the unity, and in the second one sees the inherent unity in the duality.

That is my opinion.
This is one of the things I'm arguing for. Namely, how can one trust the dark side when one is employed by it? I'm making a clear distinction here because I do not believe that the dark side can, or will, grant any kind of equal footing to anyone who attempts to employ it. This is the illusion. The reality is that one is conned into believing they are using, when in fact they are being used.

There is a simple test to demonstrate that model.

Observe one who is aligned to the light side, the right hand path, or God and those who are aligned with the dark side, the left hand path, or the Demonic.

As my favourite Greek was fond of implying, observe and trust the test of experience.

I have observed that those who are aligned to the light are generally more at peace, do not agitate easily, are able to name their sources without fear (and one might ask one's self why the name of one's source must be hidden, and what value that hiding a name serves and whom it serves), are more flexible in terms of dealing with crisis, are more in touch with their emotions in a balanced way, and generally attract people to them. Those who employ the dark side (and I am speaking as one who observes and one who has been employed by the dark side for many years) are constantly in a state of fear of being discovered. They recognize that what they are attempting to achieve must be done so by dark means and dark purposes because at the core of the human being exists a connect to a greater moral compass, an innate sense of morality. The sad reality is this: those that are employed by the dark side are merely batteries, and are merely cared about as such. Where-as the light encourages and wants self knowledge, self awareness, and through this greater understanding of the Divine, the place one has within the Divine and all of Creation, the dark has only one purpose: corrupt what is light, and use any means to do so including corrupting individual people who so desire to entrench themselves in darkness.

This has been my experience. I have watched human beings that I have loved crumble, crack, and die spiritually and physically because they were engrossed in an enterprise they felt was going to pay off, only to enter into a world of dismay, darkness, and despair. This, I believe, is the one fundamental problem with employing the dark side for any means or purpose. Those who do so are either unaware by choice or ignorance that they are on a fool's errand that will ultimately lead to their destruction. I've yet to meet any one human being who has met the same ends pursuing the light. If you know of any I encourage you to share their story here.

In the mean time, I'm unsure if you understand just how much I do love you, how much it does pain me to see you in this condition, and how sad it makes me that I cannot go with you down that road. You are quite possibly one of the most intelligent intellectual human beings I have ever encountered, but for me to sacrifice what I know as truth for what I know as falsehood would mean that I would be a hypocrite, betraying everything I know to be true not only by philosophy, but by experience and knowledge I can only hope others have shared, experienced, or understand. If I am alone in this, I will be very sad indeed.

I stand by my wager, and I mean it not as an insult or a challenge in the way you may think.

Ten moves or less.

(actually, probably one move, and I've already made it)
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Shezbeth »

Do you see? THAT is the beginning of your folly! But it is only the beginning!

You say that you are pained, but you are only pained by your disapproval of choice and THAT only because of a biased predisposition based on indoctrination.

Day by day I transition continually toward SOMEWHERE BETWEEN the person I want to be and the person I am physiologically/potentially 'stuck' being. As time continues, the 'being stuck' is revealed to increasingly be rooted in one thing in particular,...

... just the kind of thinking you have just displayed.

Sorry, but surely you've noticed that no matter how subtle, I'm impervious to dogma. ^_~

One is 'employed' by the dark side in the same sense that abstinence is a sexual position, to borrow from Bill Maher.
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Re: Employing the Light Side

Post by Pris »

Hermit wrote:
Pris wrote:.
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Hi Phil. I'm thinking the idea here is there are no sides to begin with. Thinking in terms of 'sides' is basically a mental trap.

Consider this: there are no absolutes.
.
.

Really?

Is that an absolute?
HAHA! Absolutely. :twisted:
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