Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

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Phil
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Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Phil »

I’m not sure how much homework anyone here has done, or where the common ground lies, but I wanted to air some ideas I had about this amazingly divisive thought construct:

Is there any information or even speculation from any coherent FlatEarthers about what they imagine/perceive is “outside the dome”, so to speak?

Does the flat earth concept imply a “level” of beings that created our environment, and therefore would be in a similar relationship position that a programmer would have to his computer generated “sims” or a scientist would have to her petri dish? If so, do they live in a “flat” world? Or do a majority of the FE-ers believe we are the entirety of existence?

I’m not looking for “evidence” or proofs or facts or whatever for one side or the other, I’m just trying to explore the implications of either belief system. I’m not interested in hearing on how you can live the same whether the earth is round or not, or that you don’t care about the idea and think it’s a distraction.

I think it is interesting concept, and it bewilders me how it is presented without hardly any (from what I can find) theories or ideas or speculations about reality…other than the top of the human hierarchy is lying to us. I understand that the emotional charge on the idea makes it difficult to discuss, that this charge is generated mainly by concepts so sacred to us that we have a hard time “unknowing”, no matter which side we choose take. It seems that lots of (FE...or even round earth) people WANT other people to believe that what they believe to be true...but I can't seem to find what they feel that means about the reality they are living in (if that makes sense?)

The world being flat (or round) has a significantly different meaning than it would have in the (Copernicus?) time we were taught it first came to a head, back then there was a lot of uncharted territory for the “civilized world” that we’ve evolved from, now it seems much more easily provable, in that to me it says a lot more about the understanding of information and mind manipulation than in the nature of reality…perhaps that’s the ultimate purpose of any “psyop”: prevent us from thinking clearly about the nature of the reality we find ourselves in? Even if it's a "trap" to block us at a certain point in our thinking, what is it distracting us from, and how is it so effectively divisive?
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by maggie »

Phil wrote:
I’m not looking for “evidence” or proofs or facts or whatever for one side or the other, I’m just trying to explore the implications of either belief system. I’m not interested in hearing on how you can live the same whether the earth is round or not, or that you don’t care about the idea and think it’s a distraction.

I think it is interesting concept, and it bewilders me how it is presented without hardly any (from what I can find) theories or ideas or speculations about reality… Even if it's a "trap" to block us at a certain point in our thinking, what is it distracting us from, and how is it so effectively divisive?
This is fascinating to me also. The one person I know who took this on has a background as a child in a very fundamentalist Christian church. Over the years, he has retained very black/white thinking patterns. We have been connected via this alt community ideas of health and "freeing the mind". So, I was flabbergasted when he seemed to be hooked by the flat earth ideas.

I see that there is a deep structure that appeals to HIM of "Creative Design". His belief that "God" created the world allows him to believe there is a flat earth and that this is a "made up" environment. There is also plenty of room in his belief structure for an adversary force.

My own beliefs are very different because YES, I see a design from creator but I see it as an unfolding under principles that are unified and I also don't think everything we are told about these adversarial forces are an objective fact. I see this as very much a mythic drama we engage of forces and that we are very INDIVIDUALLY (in a collective also) central to the creation. This is not fixed and has not been completed but also holds all that has been or could be. This is probably where I get frustrated as this makes sense TO ME and I cannot "argue" well with my friend since I seem "airy fairy". To him a flat earth with an ice wall is concretely satisfying. He sees "Eternity" outside...God's heaven and hell.

Even though I cannot logically articulate my understanding, I am NOT feeling we are hedged in EXCEPT by our own minds. It may seem contradictory but IMO this "earth experience" is "real", a hologram, created AND indeterminate. This welter of concepts does not fit black/white.

My question is what makes some FE believers so angry when challenged? IMO it is the same dogmatic need for certainty that is found in many guises.
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Naga_Fireball »

I think I might have a peep at what they are afraid of (excuse my presumption):

Yeats put it very well in his poem "The Second Coming";

I believe as above posters suggested that there is too much 'chaos' in the global camp, that the idea we are tiny specks plastered to a slightly larger speck, spinning madly and reaching nowhere all the same, like the red queen of Through the Looking Glass...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Widening_Gyre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Coming_(poem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Turning and turning in the widening gyre,
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold,
And mere Anarchy is loosed upon the world
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Phil »

My question is what makes some FE believers so angry when challenged? IMO it is the same dogmatic need for certainty that is found in many guises.
I believe there is an (extra) artificially implanted emotional charge on the issue, I see just often and even more frustrating the upset and impatience and frustration from the (now) traditional view...to the point where the implications (either way) get lost.

I see the fundamentalist Christian appeal to the concept, which fits under the broader umbrella of those that only seem to choose black & white...but the "science-y" data-based skeptical truther types are what fascinate me. When they are coming at it hard from an "evidence based" point of view, it's there that I'm wondering if anyone has seen any of these going that further step, and defining or describing even speculations of what (beside heaven and hell) exists outside of their flat earth? What do they think is maintaining the deception over the collective consciousness (besided the TPTB insider top of the human hierarchy--or do they believe a handful of psychos run a disc that "just is" in some void?)?

I dunno...this is what I'm curious about. Flat Earth implies all kinds of wild things (to me) outside the dome. I have a hard time buying a hell-earth-heaven reality, such a limited, solely human existence. I understand why those that honestly believe that would be defensive about that, it's a fear-based (and super scary) mindset, I get why it'd be upsetting for them to explore it.

But I'm really interested those that want us to believe that they not only believe, but have the "science" or experimental based "proof" to share...what these people think of the rest of the mechanics/structure of the reality that they live in. Does anyone know of any "researchers" or even youtube "research" or presentations that goes to this level? Or is it the entire "science/proof/evidence" based "side" of the FE argument the same as "established authoritative science" that largely ignores causality?
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Phil »

This is great, I <3 Max Igan:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsQndR-pFpY[/youtube]
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Hermit »

Maybe it's just really simple, and akin to the same reason why most avid pot smokers get angry when you talk about prohibition.

They're attached to the idea.

Attachment. Hmmm....
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Naga_Fireball »

:mrgreen:
Poke.

Are pancakes flat or round?
Both & nether? I mean neither.
What about arses. Are they flat or spherical?

Sorry :roll:
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Phil »

Hermit wrote:Maybe it's just really simple, and akin to the same reason why most avid pot smokers get angry when you talk about prohibition.

They're attached to the idea.

Attachment. Hmmm....
I've been thinking about this...and as avid pot smoker, who'd actually prefer (for my own reasons) it stay "illegal" (unregulated, not mass produced by corporate interests), I'd say those attached to the prohibition idea actually have a cause for their attachment.

Likewise, information can be like a drug, I suppose--like pot having medicinal properties as well as addictive ones...and harmful ones when abused. I was addicted to "truth", attached to the idea some could be discerned from the flood of "data"...good intended, ill/deception intended, indifferent, etc. Emotional attachments develop according to our relationship with the "substance", so generalizing "avid pot smokers" does as much good as generalizing flat earthers.

What I'm really curious is their world view...beyond the emotional attachment to the suppression of information (which seems to be the focus of a lot of avid pot smokers and those concerned with the shape of the earth). It seems pot smokers have it right with the medicinal value of not-abused cannabis use, and the anger at the suppressed info while maybe not useful is at least seemingly (most likely) righteous. Their perception realized could make it more easy to help others, and expose the dirty side of the medical industrial complex' lies.

But what of the flat earthers? They would expose a lying authority manipulating and controlling us...that's the emotional hook for a lot of what is written/youtubed on the subject, just "proof" of lies and coverup and data manipulation. Which I can understand the emotional attachment to, I used to get just as bent at the idea...still can, if I think about it too much and let it.

So with the pot issue, I see tons of speculation of what our world would be like with the prohibition lifted, the truth revealed...whether it be the irradication of cancer and all diseases and peace and love and happiness and less jailed peeps and whatever one end of the scale imagines as well as the pot head epidemic of loser druggies and hopeless children the other end would have you believe...and I can see the whole range in between.

But with the flat earth, I have never seen or heard anyone explain what the world/universe/reality would be like. I can imagine the version I grew up with, and guess I'm emotionally attached to. I can wrap my brain around large spheres and objects falling/traveling/whatever through an infinite void (or a big enough bubble that it's close enough to infinite for us). I can (and often do) entertain a "13th Floor" virtual flat reality that we're some sort of simulation. But for the life of me, I can't imagine what's outside of a flat earth? What's it sitting on? Is there anything outside it? Is it just floating around in some "space-like" void? Are there other discs/domes out there?

This is what I am curious about...I have never seen this addressed. Has anyone heard even a loopy youtuber take a stab at this...or even better, Dubay or other "strong" alternative voices addess this at all? And if not...does this suggest that it is all just an experiment, to test and/or manipulate that emotional attachment to ideas? Refinement of the weaponization of information?
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Hermit »

Phil wrote:
Hermit wrote:Maybe it's just really simple, and akin to the same reason why most avid pot smokers get angry when you talk about prohibition.

They're attached to the idea.

Attachment. Hmmm....
I've been thinking about this...and as avid pot smoker, who'd actually prefer (for my own reasons) it stay "illegal" (unregulated, not mass produced by corporate interests), I'd say those attached to the prohibition idea actually have a cause for their attachment.


The attachment causes an unprovoked radically violent reaction. This is contrary to everything I've heard from the same people who talk about it being a narcotic which creates a sense of perpetual calm, relaxation, and peace among people.

The same kind of radically violent reaction, I have observed listening to the debates, is pesent among flat earthers who encounter the same kinds of contrary position.

I would submit, therefor, that something in the position is false, or that something about the position is hidden, or that the position is radically contrary to innate knowledge which creates the types of reactions I have observed. The last point in that sentence is of course a speculation.
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Re: Entertaining the Flat Earth, its implications...

Post by Phil »

You could say that about just about anything though, especially anything having to do with drugs/guns/politics/religion (and especially the prohibition/authority angle on anything)....

What I'm really wondering is: Have you (anyone) ever seen/heard any believers expand beyond the right/wrong "proof" argument?
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