What is Real?

[Spiritwind]

I have this little book, entitled: The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment by Thaddeus Golas (published in 1971) that I got from my sister about 35 years ago. I remember when my sister and I were visiting my mom and our step-dad back then, who actually wasn't much older than us, picked up that book and started reading from it. My sister and I both watched in amazement as his face contorted in anger and he almost threw the book down in disgust and wanted to know how we could read such garbage. I never could figure that one out, why it would actually enrage him. Funny, my sister gave up looking for truth and understanding a long time ago, and my step-dad developed mental illness so bad he had to be institutionalized. Maybe it was a dangerous book after all. Just kidding.

Anyway, I was drawn to pick it up again, along with the book Anatomy of Peace by Emery Reeves from 1946, also a very interesting book. I found a few sections in each that I will share here, and hopefully someone will find these excerpts as thought provoking as I did.

The first is from Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment, from chapter nine entitled: What is Real?

The concept that we live in a universe of equal beings can make sense of all religions, and can contain all metaphysical attitudes. It is the easiest raft to discard when we reach the other shore that is no shore. It can tell us how to live on this plane, it can integrate our scientific knowledge, it can show how our physical existence is the expression of what is true and what is real.

Equal and unique live beings are all that is fully true and real in the universe. We are the universe.

We experience the deepest sense of reality only at the highest expansion in perfect love. On lower vibration levels, we see other beings relating to each other in a way that is not entirely true or real.

For a down to earth example, let us consider that people in an audience are real, but "audience" is a name for something that will disappear when the people go home. In this sense, the audience is an illusion: a temporary, partial and limited reality - it has no independent, causative existence.

We can construct a statistical probability about how the audience will behave, but each member is free to come and go at will, just as the atoms forming our bodies come and go. It is in this meaning that we can say that the physical universe , including our bodies, is an illusion.

We are real: the beings participating in the universe - us, the particles in the atoms, the energy and space beings, all are real, all are equal, all are of one kind.

But the relationships, groupings and massings are illusory as we see them from any vibration level. Thus, as the audience is formed out of real beings, illusions are formed out of real beings. Indeed, there is no other way to form an illusion except by using what is real, there is no other material around.

However, rather than speak of the world as illusory, which can be interpreted as a license to steal and be otherwise unloving, and can only be annoying when you feel stuck where you are, it is better to call it a secondary reality. The world is real enough when we are vibrating within a oracular range, but only while we are doing so.

Facts are limited truths: the way relationships between others look to us when we have limited our own awareness and love, or when they have limited theirs. But facts have roots in the truth: we may have only a limited view of the beings involved in what we see as matter, but those beings are real, they are self determined and are acting in harmony.

However, we don't need facts to be wise and loving. Different sets of facts are real at different vibration levels. The truth is the same for everyone, the facts are always a little different for everyone.

Facts are certainly fascinating, like gossip: who is doing what to whom, what's doing what to what. Of the gathering of facts there is no end. Sometimes we feel that if we had enough of them, we could get at the truth. Sometimes we madly try to deny them even though we are attached to a vibration from which they will not disappear.

Illusions, facts, are reliable to the extent that they have truth in them, but they are also delusory.

Delusions are denials of the truth. If we use the physical plane to deny higher reality, we are deluded. But if we deny the reality that is in the material world, we are deluded also. We cannot rise above the physical plane by denying its reality: we must love it and affirm the reality of the live beings who form it.

Some of us grow discouraged with spiritual efforts because enlightening experiences don't always help us handle the facts of physical existence any better. We may even mess up more: an LSD trip may show us how vaporous the world is (remember, this is written in the 70's and I personally know this to be true), and then we get annoyed because hard mass level reality is still there when we come down.

Enlightening experiences can help in dealing with facts by showing you that you are a completely flexible whatever-it-is, capable of existing on many different vibration levels, both within and above the physical plane.

Once you know that the facts will be different on every level, you are less likely to fight the facts of any particular plane. As your awareness opens up, you will be able to choose the level you want, and you will have more enjoyable facts to deal with.

Here is no being in the universe more powerful than you, but there are also none less powerful than you. This should be a starting point of all your behavior towards other people. I often say to myself: let my intentions not attempt to contradict the necessary laws of our relations as equal beings. A long sentence, but I do say it.

Since every being is self determined, you cannot change anyone else's vibration level against his will, nor are you obliged to. You cannot in reality hurt or help others without their agreement to play the game, nor can anyone hurt or help you without your agreement. (This concept I am having some trouble with, I admit)

Indeed, your perception of others is colored by your own limited vibrations until you reach the higher levels, so you have no way of knowing exactly what it is you are trying to change. On the other hand, you do control your own vibration level absolutely, and that's all the freedom you need to govern your own relationships and experiences.

You are free to be anywhere you want to be in the world that is real to you now. And beyond that, you are capable of being in any time, on any vibration level' in any system, with whomever you like.

Regardless of how trapped you feel, how weighed down by one day after another, your fundamental freedom is not affected.

If you look at your environment now, you may see a great deal of "reality" that makes you feel secure even when it hurts and tires you out. It's all right to hold onto that while you think this over. Nothing is going to happen unexpectedly just as a result of reading about how free you are.

In any case, you're never alone - there are many beings aware of you at all times, loving you, ready to make you feel it whenever you are ready to open up to it, taking care to see that you don't get in too deep, encouraging you to love yourself.

The world you see is in truth a reality of convenience - in a sense, the universe will compassionately arrange itself into anything you need it to be to work out your preferences. You have an infinite choice of world's to live in.

[maggie]

Anyway, I was drawn to pick it up again, along with the book Anatomy of Peace by Emery Reeves from 1946, also a very interesting book. I found a few sections in each that I will share here, and hopefully someone will find these excerpts as thought provoking as I did.

The first is from Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment, from chapter nine entitled: What is Real?

We are real: the beings participating in the universe - us, the particles in the atoms, the energy and space beings, all are real, all are equal, all are of one kind.

But the relationships, groupings and massings are illusory as we see them from any vibration level. Thus, as the audience is formed out of real beings, illusions are formed out of real beings. Indeed, there is no other way to form an illusion except by using what is real, there is no other material around.

However, rather than speak of the world as illusory, which can be interpreted as a license to steal and be otherwise unloving, and can only be annoying when you feel stuck where you are, it is better to call it a secondary reality. The world is real enough when we are vibrating within a oracular range, but only while we are doing so.

We are real.

I was reading a very good novel today "The Sea priestess" by Dion Fortune. It really felt real while i was reading it. It had a kind of gothic feel to it...stormy, a little shadowy.

I was reading it while I waited in case someone might choose to have chair massage. It is a good spot in a touristy town, up a slight hill with grass and trees and a large shady porch.

This was my real life but the ideals in the story, mythic overtones like being a priestess and priest in the old Atlantean religion of the sea peoples, the setting of the west coast of england, the characters and the scenery took me somehwere "real' in my heart's ideal... to BE a priestess having undergone all the ordeals to reach mastery, being in the world but not of it yet FREE. in the story, there was the contrast of the mortal man, a bit muggle earth bound. This man was an antihero, heroic against his mortal will. He was resisting being just a tool in the goddess hands. This was understandable and admirable and yet the goddess needs what the goddess needs. He as a just a man cannot really act on his initiative. he needs women to tell him what today then rages and is displayed as a negative energetic. The priestess is able to take the positive pole and act USING him He is the energy of her priest, and he also humanly is in love. He who gives everything and surrenders to the goddess is made divine, despite his dislike.

So personality does not hinder the inner work of reconciliation with Divine forces in us and we in "them".

If we are as beings, both male and female, negative and positive, and if we are not to try to change duals but harmonize them, there is just no end to the possible expressions of STORY where we play out the mythic roles of Beings like us. They have possible been pared down to characiture and cartoon in the daily plays?

I was standing today on the porch and chatted with Vickie who was passing by getting coffee. She does intuitive readings and like I can do massage, she is set up to do readings. The Silk Road travelere store is owned by Estella. It is a mtephysical kind of gift store with lovely things, books and inscense. Estella is appointed by the Theosophical Society to a a "center" and this is not overt but Estrella is promoting tools for the inner urge of "seeking" of truth that people feel. This is a good place.

Vickie and I talked about the opportunity with the eclipse to set new intentions and let go of our past story lines and create new ones.

Just then we were joined by Estella and the owner of the next door restaurant. Daniella, the owner is French and serves French country food. Daniella called out to Estella "So sorry about Barcelona" (Estella's family comes form Spain). That pulled Estella in and she said something to effect that this was all due to emigration from war torn Arab countries. People should stop allowing immigrants. Then they became lively complaining about the local situation in town. They had their say and went back to work.

To me this was great encouragement for me to create a vision for the eclipse. "May all beings be happy and Free of suffering". I think that may include sharing complaints as long as one can be kept from a thought loop that hooks us?

I'd like to see people reaching a state of satisfaction (the contrast is dis-satisfied) experiencing peace, cooperation, tolerance, compassion, strength to speak up and be heard then shift one's energy to let "whatever is bothering" go for god for good. The strength to stand in one's own knowing can allow us to experiemnt but to have the end in mind makes all the difference... know where we are headed and like the trip. Yes, KNOWING from the inside out is taking from a central well where we know that we know we are REAL.

Any time we are aware in the metaphysical, we can input. Then we are able to change our stories because we already are IN that change.... as we understand the mythic realm that is real, even in fictional tales, what IS IS. As above, so below.... always anyway

For the Eclipse I willlook around and take examples of what is observed. I won't get bogged down in the particulars and I feel into the themes and THEN seeing the themes, I look at where the theme is hinting. What is IMPORTANT is shown up either by example or contradiction. I KNOW what I will choose THEN. I will if successful be satisfied in my mundane life with the results ......with my choices come my story.....!

We can choose to see a whole world that looks different than what we see in the after affects always in the past in front of the eyes. It's like the book is being written and the page appears as we read. The all ready written page in a book where we can maybe write new lines in the margins at will? However the story is conceived in us and by accepting we are that kind of being, we can have ever so many lovely tales as WE consider lovely. That COULD include a love of bitching but I feel how energy just leaks out when I am annoyed..

[Sandy Clark]

Well there is one thing I do know....I am ever grateful to have grown to the extent that no matter the illusion I find myself in I can take responsibility for my part in the dance (whether intent was good or bad ) I chalk it up to learning either way and find the beauty in it all.

Sometimes this is easy and other times it is painful and thus not so easy but overall; the quicker I get to addressing it the greateer chance I can either enhance and elongate the enjoyment of the created illusion/dance and or end it to alleviate pain or perceived resulting pain for myself and dance partner or partners.

So Spiritwind; this is how I deal with my part in the illusion/or dance, whether concious of my creation or understand my need for the creation. I recognize and assess my own my steps in the dance to move it forward and not be stuck in a creation I don't like once aware. Not sure if this helps with your not agreeing with the concept that we create all our experiences but thought I would share my 2 cents worth.

[Eelco]

Apparently, If i hear what the mystics say, there is some truth somewhere.
Some sort of reality that persists.. Over the years I have found a pretty solid idea of all that it is not.
I must admit though that I have found nothing. That is absolutely nothing that supposedly transcends these transient Not it's..

I am beginning to fear that in reality It's all made up. Illusions with absolutely nothing that lasts.

With Love(as if that would mean anything)
Eelco

[LostNFound]

If I may, I am waxing into existentialism just a bit, Could it be that REAL OR REALITY is only a made up concept while we exist on this plane? It is a thing that is brought into the physical realm with each of us as we manifest from the universe onto this level for the short space. Time is also brought with this existence. So I exist here and now and I can make up the time thing. Hey I can call it real because there are all these time pieces wherever I look. Is that real? Only what I make of it only what I believe.

You are real in my being because I can converse with you, I can see you, I can feel you. Is that real? Does one see every thing around them as real? Physically, because I am physical, this is reality. May it be than when this physical being ceases to be in this plane the conscious goes into a reality that is manifested in the universe. Is that then REALITY? I breath, I eat, I touch, I smell, I hear, I think, No wait, I did that before I came to this physical sense. Perhaps I though this into being and that became my reality for just this space. There is no time but only what we fabricate it to be while we be here now and then and tomorrow.

Reality is a seed or concept that bounces around in the infinite being of a thought and comes to fruition only as I or you create this shell to experience this small part in a distant corner of each vast universe of infinity.

What is Real?, such an all reaching question to ponder. Very good question Spiritwind. May we all in our wisdom and knowledge create and accept a reality of our beings.

And that/this my dear friends is my existentialist wondering for this moment. I see my 12string guitar and will make the sounds that pull my heartstrings. I must say that I thoroughly enjoy the above posts. Just a thought, today I fell into the whole concept of jumping into the universe and then jumping back out into this concept of reality.

Steven

[Eelco]

If I may,

Of course..

I breath, I eat, I touch, I smell, I hear, I think, No wait, I did that before I came to this physical sense. Perhaps I though this into being and that became my reality for just this space. There is no time but only what we fabricate it to be while we be here now and then and tomorrow.

Well there is breathing, there is touching, smelling, thinking, seeing, hearing, tasting..
But in all these processes is there an I. Truly some substantial, non-transient, static I?
I used to believe there was. some soul construct that trancended the ego construct. The bhindu, that diamond that ever was, ever is and ever shall be.
And maybe it is, All I have found is that all I thought is was is not it. What I call I is a momentary construct. A memory induced creation that helps close the gap between past and future. An idea if you will. In the here and now. There are breathing, touching, smelling, thinking, seeing, hearing, tasting..
But I don't think that I am experiencing it. I only think I do.

Sometimes that realization gives rise to joy.
Usually that realization allows for a more bleak and hopeless connotation during my days..

With Love
Eelco

[LostNFound]

Just more to ponder, Or can we each in our own minds except a given belief of what is real by defining the word within ourselves, accepting the thought and move on? So much to explore and so much confusion. (I was taught this by my Parents? I was taught this by friends? I was taught this by the education systems? So hard to escape the given opinions of all that is that surrounds me. Do not climb to deep or you might cease to exist to those other constructs around you. Ha! Guess or know, Know or guess. I have traveled billions of miles, I can travel through infinity. I can be small, I can be huge, I can be anything. I am just me and I am just here. REAL?

Here is something

https://youtu.be/PO-iE_7QB8A

Steven

[Chicodoodoo]

For a down to earth example, let us consider that people in an audience are real, but "audience" is a name for something that will disappear when the people go home. In this sense, the audience is an illusion: a temporary, partial and limited reality - it has no independent, causative existence.

I hate this kind of thinking. Why, oh why, do people accept this tripe without question?

It's easy to expose the flaws in the logic here. Try this: "For a down to earth example, let us consider that 'people' is a name for something that will disappear when the people decompose into dust. In this sense, people are an illusion: a temporary, partial and limited reality - they have no independent, causative existence."

Obviously, concluding that people are an illusion based on this type of flawed reasoning is an error.

An audience is not an illusion either. It may be temporary, but the definition of "illusion" is not something that is temporary. An audience has a dependent, causative existence. It depends on individuals gathering together as a group. That is no illusion, unless you wish to consider everything an illusion, including reality, in which case you have nothing concrete to talk about.

Note that this critique is directed at Thaddeus Golas, the author of The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment, and not Spiritwind, who is simply presenting it for our consideration.

[Eelco]

The illusion is not entirely fictious. Its a partly shared experience with some common anchors if you will. The audience perceives these anchors from their frame of reverence which greatly dictates how they hear, see and feel about the performance.

As such we can talk about our shared illusion.
I.e the grounds for our so-called co-op created reality. The truth of co dependent arising of phenomenon is one of the corner stones of the Buddhist path to understanding the depth of illusion and continued suffering.

With love

[Fred Steeves]

Some of those old books were very well written, good stuff. One of the most useful books I ever read which was about 10 years ago now, was one of my grandmother's old spiritual soft backs written back in the 50's. Even though it was quite meaningful at the time I've forgotten most of it, save for one part that was similar in nature to Spiritwind's example.

In hindsight it basically spoke of being in the world but not of it, with the metaphorical example of one being attacked by an angry mob. One who is 100% grounded in just the physical realm will be ripped to shreds, whereas the more one learns to be in the world but not of it, the less there is for the mob to grab into. There would necessarily come a point where one could simply drift right through the midst of the mob, without a care in the world.

To me that sort of points to the question at hand of "what is real?" Am I real? Is the angry mob real? Well now I reckon that depends, doesn't it? At my current level of practice I wouldn't dream of attempting to walk through the midst of a physical angry mob, (but does that mean it can't be done?) I can readily observe however that I'm getting better and better at simply drifting right through the metaphorical mob, which would be the ubiquitous emotional upheaval that swirls and grabs at us continually on this plane. (I'm sure there are some nodding heads reading that LOL)

Being a natural born philosopher, I can observe first hand the urgent need for a counter balance to this predisposition. Questions such as "what is real" can be quite useful to spin round and round, with the relative answers being put into practice bit by bit as described above. But, at a certain point the questions can also begin to become counter productive. The unbalanced philosopher can wind up simply dreaming their entire life away entertaining questions such as "what is real?", and I see that on display quite regularly across the forum spectrum. It can become an obsession: "What if, what if, what if..." "What is real, what is not real. etc..."

You know, come a certain point any more I'm like "fuck all that, show me how all this bullshit can be of use in my daily practice!"

A good counter balance to philosophic ponderings, is practicality. And a good counter balance question to "what is real?", would be "is it useful?"

Of course the answers to any sort of these type questions are purely subjective, but bottom line is every thought, question, experience, etc, is useful, until it's no longer useful that is... Does this question still serve me, or am I now simply engaged in round and round mental masturbation?

As always, you make the call.