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Post by Phil »

Trauma is the most effective way to learn and grow.

We learn to lie ourselves and that it's ok to project our pain our outward, because this truth lies underneath of our very being.

Ridding this thought from the collective consciousness would fundamentally change the way we live, arrange ourselves.

That is all. Sincerely, Captain Obvious

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Post by Spiritwind »

I have thought exactly that Phil! There are many ways to learn, and maybe somewhere along the way this idea, this concept, had to be explored. But, enough already! I see it every where I look, this alternative way of learning any damn thing at all. I see it as I work with my horse. She responds so well to love and encouragement. It's like watching a flower bloom, to see the look in her eyes when I go to greet her in the morning, and feel the growing bond of trust between us. I see it as I carefully choose my responses to things my grandchildren do. I think back on my own life, and how my fundamentalist parental figures assumed that children needed some kind of physical punishment from time to time, to keep them in line, and learn respect. In my view, love and respect are not on opposite sides.

I started reading a book by Jim Mars about population control. It's quite disturbing in every way. At the top of the psychotic, anti-life elite tree, is indeed this authoritarian, father knows best concept, and definitely has the mentality of a War Lord. Only the tough survive, and vulnerability is a weakness that must be extinguished. And now here we are, a world full of generational trauma victims, being exploited by their conquerors. And this war started probably before our human story on earth even began. It's never ended. It's like it just keeps looping around on itself, with this live, die, repeat cycle.

But I also realize, I have both the victim and the victimizer in my psyche, and that's where the real work begins. Because, I am certain that until I fully integrate both sides, by a process of brutal self honesty, it will continue to reach out and bite me in the butt. That seems to be the only solution for me lately. Just don't give my power over to my own inner demons, cause they are guaranteed to exploit my weaknesses at every opportunity. That's what they do. I don't hate them for it. For me, it all about self mastery. Then, hopefully, I reap the reward of my hard work by not being intimidated, subtly manipulated, and continually deceived by my own false beliefs.

In a way, I guess you could that I am learning to be that loving parental figure I never had, by changing those inner, constantly running programs, and rewriting them without the use of trauma. I am rewriting them with the idea that we are each of us, if we chose to engage in this process of becoming, the embodiment of a totally different and much more integrative form of love. It starts, for me anyway, with loving myself, even as I see the parts that don't look so good on closer examination.

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent. But sometimes Phil, you really touch on something quite profound, and quite deep. Thank you.
I see your love shining out from my furry friends faces, when I look into their eyes. I see you in the flower’s smile, the rainbow, and the wind in the trees....

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Post by Naga_Fireball »

Thanks for this topic. Although it strikes the individual nerve, I find myself reminded of 9/11, the "shock and awe" tactics that terrified AMERICANS, that stupefied Americans, and likely inspired "the enemy" :roll: to hate USA more.

In regards to children and pets I've seen firsthand the effects of trauma. It has a terrifying, stupefying effect on them (us).

If there was one thing i could change about my past it would be to discredit the usefulness of negative feedback and abuse in managing people and animals.

Our local library mural has a quote saying, "The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have failed".

There is hardly a more profound and tragic truth.

Also we delve into a sort of absolutism when we ask, is it possible to restore a human being who has been through cruelty and trauma.

I have to believe there is a way, that the fuckers at the top do Not have absolute power, that love covers a multitude of sins..
Brotherhood falls asunder at the touch of fire!
He finds his fellow guilty of a skin
Not coloured like his own, and having power
To enforce the wrong, for such a worthy cause
Dooms and devotes him as his lawful prey.
~William Cowper

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Post by Blue Rising »

Well Captain Obvious, you have had me thinking about this all day. You've brought this up on many occasions, and all I could do was agree with you until now. That it seemed unnecessary to have so damned much trauma to learn anything. Now I've been thinking about it so much, I feel one of my ramblings coming on...

I don't think trauma is needed to learn anything, not lessons, not compassion, not empathy. However...thinking back on some traumas I have lived through, I started thinking about something. (I would never say my truth is a universal truth or anything, I am only sharing my thought process.) I was thinking that it may be an opportunity of sorts.

Take me, for example. Just take my divorce. Wait...and oddly, my Mom's death is interchangeable with this. Or my Dad's. Or...the day I was disfellowshipped...any situation that has been traumatic to me involving loss, now that I think about it.

The actual losses were traumatic because I was completely and utterly attached to each of the people that were ripped out of my life. There was not a period of time beforehand that could have prepared me for any of these losses. Thus the trauma. But...they were traumatic for me because I was so attached to them. My family. (That would be normal.)

Looking back on these situations, and the trauma that the loss of the most important people in my life caused me, shows me something. For me, the message is that every single person, place, or thing important to me is temporary. I'm not kidding. These traumas showed me the impermanence of everything associated with this life. I was too attached to the material world. As I feel more attached, or more part of, the nonphysical, I feel less attached to this life, this body, my closest family...etc etc etc.

That is not to say I do not love my friends and family deeply. It just seems that the traumas I experienced, that were so deep I thought I would never recover, were because I did not know at the time, or did not realize yet, that there is something very permanent and I should keep that in mind.

Anyway, I suppose that when I planned out this physical lifetime, I built in many opportunities to wake up to the permanent/temporary reality/reality situation. Opportunities to see my own Spiritual nature. And for whatever reason, I did not see or take these opportunities. But fo damned sho, I see more clearly now. Could I have avoided the experience of being traumatized if I had realized all this before these losses? I doubt I could have avoided pain altogether, but I do not think life needed to be as traumatic as it has been and had I awakened to this before it may not have been.

This topic reminds me so much of Arjuna's discussions with Krishna. And other words I have read since then.

And I feel so much empathy for people when I see them in pain, when I see suffering, when I see trauma. I feel so much of that, it hurts. But is it necessary for us to learn? That depends, I guess, on whether we can get to where we are without it. Or if we can find some spiritual truth through it. Or some Higher view of it. (Which is next to near impossible when it is happening.)

On the flip side for me, is the fact that so many groups/people/entities/energies feed on human pain and loss and suffering, and the energy that is produced during trauma....even then, though, it would not be considered a necessity to learn anything. What those would do, I reckon, is to cause as much trauma possible. (Another reason for them to throw obstacles in the waking up process, I presume.)

I guess for me, trauma has been the finger pointing to the moon. And that moon certainly is hard to see sometimes. (The moon being the truth about what is really permanent...and the truth being that my own trauma was because of my own attachments...) Thanks for giving me something to think about today.
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Post by Phil »

The trauma of losing a loved one spawns from the lies we tell ourselves in our strange denial of death. We are raised to fear it, like we are (validly) taught to fear pain. If we had a more honest (less fear-based) perception of leaving this particular plane of existence, if we truly believed what we tell ourselves about the soul enduring or the first law of thermodynamics, we could exist in a reality where while it is sad for us, because it's human to miss those we love, the loss would be much less traumatic.

Causing pain intentionally is an inhuman act, what should be the most obvious of lies to ourselves. Yet we find ourselves immersed in a world where it's a "given" that there are people out there with that sole intention to hurt us.

Maybe there are truly beings that thrive from our pain, but I think they are not "human"...regardless of the genetic/physical makeup of their vehicle/meatbag. But only by facing existence assuming that all humans are perpetuating loops, projecting their own pain outward, and therefore only need to heal themselves to break the cycle, can we find that inhuman force of "evil", if it does exist external to ourselves.

It doesn't have to be the way that it is. It is hard to unwind, as the abuse cycle seems to be as old as time...but it may be possible. Is there anything better to work toward? Are there any more valuable uses of your time? This, I believe, is where the problem lies: for too many, we didn't even realize we were programmed into loving our pain, to recognize how we adapted to this inhuman condition by teaching ourselves to lie to ourselves.

Without recognizing this, any external pain-causing force has an eternal food supply. All it might have took was one being making one choice...planting the seed in antiquity, and the rest perpetuates itself. The real problem that I see is the lie that it is "human nature", it is something inherent in us, one of those "random" mutations in evolution or the original sin given to us by God as a condition of free will.

Too many of us use these excuses to act powerless against our own propensity to project our trauma outward, a difficult habit to break. It took me 35 years or so to take the true concept of responsibility to heart, and luckily I learned that it is an ongoing that we can never stopping toward, lest we fall again...needing a trauma to teach us.

Yes it's an opportunity, yes it's an incredibly effective teacher...and yes, it's addictive--so much so that it's easy (and profitable to the selfish and/or control-lovers) to push. But we can break the chain. We just gotta stop lying to ourselves.
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