Organic Portals - Souless Humans

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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Spiritwind »

Without wanting to write a book in response to what anyone else believes, there are several thoughts that come to mind when I read your comments.

I have come to a place in my own personal journey where I have to admit I do have beliefs, which to me, is anything you think is true, without having experience that brings that belief into an experiential knowing. We could get really thorny and say, how do we know anything is real? Memories, experiences, they can all be subjective. Many of my beliefs are even subconscious. In other words, I behave as though certain things are true and real, in part because of the nature of the program and subsequent construct we collectively find ourselves in. I would even go so far as to say that within this construct we, each of us as individuals, live in our own unique reality bubble, while still participating in a larger bubble of so called reality.

Now, I already know that Eelco has expressed repeatedly his difficulty with the whole idea of separating people into groups with any kind of hierarchical structure. But, the truth that we all experience, is that this was done to the whole of humanity before this particular life experience even began. In other words, the structures we all feel instinctively are not fair or equally distributed were already here before we were born. I did not consciously in this life time create these structures. And they are not structures that are conducive to long term survival of the human species.

Also, one would have to arrive at a mutually accepted definition of evil, and even what it means to be alive. The whole topic of what constitutes a soul could be a whole thread on its own, with likely not much agreement to be had. I, personally, feel at this time that I am actually a spiritual entity first, and that it is eternal, although it may not always experience itself as individuated. I have long felt, though not believed necessarily (but still don't know for certain so leave it to where I can modify my thoughts upon new information), that the soul is more of an experiential container for the spirit. Kind of like the hard drive that can store information, memories, thoughts, experiences etc. In this way I develop more individuality and a wider range of experiences that include but are not limited to physicality.

How do I interpret being alive, especially in the sense that I feel the above article was trying to convey? I will try to answer that. At a most basic level, everything is alive. I learned in my college chemistry class years ago about the idea that the amount of energy in the universe remains constant. There is never more or less of it, it only changes form. Everything is made up of moving energy that simply appears solid to us. So how am I different from anything else? I do know from my earliest memories that I had questions about this experience of reality that absolutely no one, not one person for much of my life, was asking. Why do I know beyond any shadow of doubt that this truly isn't all there is. Yes, everything is alive, but alive in what way. Everything is energy vibrating at different speeds and octaves. But I sensed myself being alive as in the bigger me being too big to even fit in this body.

So, maybe more correctly would be to say that some, even from birth, have always been aware of themselves as being much more than their body. The problem is, if you don't have clear memories of experiencing yourself outside of this body, it still falls into the realm of belief. In other words, I feel I know this, and do have some memories, but I could never prove that to someone who doesn't. Each person must look deep inside themselves to determine their own truth about who and what they really are.

For me, the value of the above article is that it provides a way, not the only way, to look at a phenomena we can all see without looking too hard. Is there something wrong with me that I have always felt different than almost everyone I have met in this life? I used to honestly believe that.

If I turn it around, though, and accept that maybe not everyone is coming from the same place, or even here for the same reasons, it frees me up to explore what it is I really did come here for. And it still comes back squarely on to me. Do I purposefully dumb myself down and start watching reality TV with my daughter-in-law, just so I can make her feel more comfortable around me? Do I need her to change? She has every right to live her life as she chooses. I can't honestly say whether anyone has a soul or not. But, if having a certain kind of soul predisposes one to spiritual yearnings that cannot be denied, might that not mean that I am alive in a somewhat different way than someone who has absolutely no desire to look deep within?

And as far as evil goes, my definition of evil is anything that knowingly and with conscious intent behaves in a manner that consistently destroys life, with absolutely no conscience at all. It is an anti life force. It is also my feeling that all of us have engaged in activities that can be viewed as anti-life. But it is the conscious intent I am talking about here. I have known many in my life that seem to be more susceptible to this anti-life energy, but I still wouldn't call them evil or soulless. The entity, beings, or force that is actively behind the evil occurring on our planet may not even be embodied for all I know. From my own personal experience, I have seen how it can mimic and influence life forms to behave in a way that goes against life. And, at least at this point in time, it seems to have its source outside of our conscious reality construct. But, I cannot deny that evil exists in this world.

What is coming to light about the darker goings on in this world are anything but life affirming. When I hold my little 18 month grandson, sleeping in my arms, I cannot wrap my mind around beings who knowingly engage in ritual sacrifices of our most innocent and undeserving. And if you think this isn't happening, then maybe denial is a just a river in Egypt for you.

I also think about all the genetic manipulation that has gone on for eons of time. I remember reading about these cows that were bred for aggression.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... super-cows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is just one example of what we do know about. If cows can be bred to be aggressive do you not think that this very kind of breeding for particular traits is just limited to animals and plant life?

I also read the book Diana referred to, called Political Ponerology. It is a fascinating study of evil on a wide scale level. One of the main points I took away from it is that very few beings on the planet are truly evil, with only evil intent. Most just get used as pawns. The more unaware one is of the nature of evil on this planet, the more one can be used for nefarious ends and not even know it. This is primarily why this subject interests me. I no longer want to change the world. I just want to change me, and that consists of mainly waking up to a knowing that lies just under the surface, one that can be re-mem-bered, or reassembled. If those of us who do remember what it was like before we came to feel stuck in these 3D bodies don't reassemble ourselves then I fear we will be forever stuck in a live-die-repeat cycle that I, for one, wish to totally wake up from. I feel and hope that by doing this it will have a radiant quality of energy that can assist others who are likewise motivated to wake up from this dream. For those who wish to remain on this never ending treadmill, it is not my job to awaken them. But I cannot once again go back to sleep just so they feel more comfortable either.
I see your love shining out from my furry friends faces, when I look into their eyes. I see you in the flower’s smile, the rainbow, and the wind in the trees....

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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Christine »

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In an unusual moment, at loss for words. So beautiful Spiritwind, she listens in the silence.
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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Pris »

Eelco wrote:Same here Pris.

Feeling through some of the elaborations above..
The war that is keeping us enslaved is still pushed in all of the above.

To be honest I am sick of people differentiating between those that somehow will make it. And those that already lost their soul, were born soulless, chose to be sheep as if it's their own fault etc etc. Besides I don't really belief in an eternal soul.

Every living being is experiencing life.
Every being should (if we need to judge at all) be judged on there actions.
Somehow it has become a popular belief that non-action is action as well.
I beg to differ.

We don't have to interact with every living being if we don't want to. But please stop growing and adding to the separation. Under the right circumstances each and every one of us is capable of the evil stuff. We have appeared soulless to others I promise you.

With Love
Eelco
I'd also like to know what is so 'great' about wars that just seem to keep going on and on ad infinitum (3D wars, 4D wars, Hollywood wars, whatever). Just the twisted mindset of it all as if it is 'how it must be' -- with the promise of truly winning kept, indefinitely, just out of reach. It's like watching the same soap opera and/or playing a role in the same soap over and over... assumed as 'normal' without question, of course. It always ends in the same cliffhanger, and we always come back for more of the same abuse... Smells like a trap.

When it comes to judging others... I do have a problem with that. That implies someone else is somehow in a more 'righteous' place and appointed themselves to be a judge. That's a slippery slope. And, I'm definitely not into belief in 'karma' or the judging/punishing of oneself. If someone feels they need to be punished for something they did, I say, 'Why?' Personal acknowledgement and remorse, I feel, is the only 'punishment' required. Then, forgive yourself and move on. The only forgiveness that matters is the forgiveness we give ourselves.

And, this is where love comes in. Heartfelt love, unconditional love... How can love and forgiveness be given to others if you can't love and forgive yourself first? It's all about giving -- whole heartedly, to yourself. It's not about needing to receive anything from anyone else. It's about being a sovereign individual, body and soul.

Not needing is one thing. Wanting is another. For example, I wouldn't be here in this forum if I didn't want the interaction/attention I'm getting with/from other members. I must be careful not to allow my 'want' to slip into a 'need' because then I give my power/control away.

I agree that 'non-action' makes for a rather useless existence (is that a judgement lol?). Still, what defines 'action' depends on the individual and is quite subjective. For some, simply breathing in an out is action enough. Who am I to judge? :D

I really don't know myself if a soul is eternal... I don't know enough about singularities, but I do think everything is made up of those. Our souls... each 'soul/singularity' does seem delightfully large, collecting info and developing/nurturing a nice, big fat ego as it goes along (the bigger the ego the better IMO)... I like to think that singularities are eternal (and nothing 'happens' that isn't permanently recorded somewhere). I have a funny feeling they are... if nothing can be destroyed/lost... energy is matter is energy transforming back and forth and so on and so forth...
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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Pris »

Spiritwind wrote:Also, one would have to arrive at a mutually accepted definition of evil, and even what it means to be alive.
Mutually acceptable? I'd say as individuated, thinking beings, that's not going to happen. Ever. :)
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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by maggie »

Eelco wrote: To be honest I am sick of people differentiating between those that somehow will make it. And those that already lost their soul, were born soulless, chose to be sheep as if it's their own fault etc etc. Besides I don't really belief in an eternal soul.

...............

We don't have to interact with every living being if we don't want to. But please stop growing and adding to the separation. Under the right circumstances each and every one of us is capable of the evil stuff. We have appeared soulless to others I promise you.
I so agree with your comments.
The source material for that article presents a synopsis of gathered opinion. If people have studied the source materials, they may find they will see evidence not to accept the author's conclusions? Taking secondary sources (tertiary, even up to 6 degrees of separation) and collating may seem like a coherent "authority" on OPs. But they all feed on one another as quoted in the article.....

"What follows are excerpts from an essay called “Organic Portals – The “Other” Race” based around the Cassiopaean transmissions , Mouravieff’s “Gnosis” and psychopathology. The topic of Organic Portals is also addressed in more depth in “The Secret History of the World” by Laura Knight-Jadczyk as well as in the article “Spiritless Humans” by Tom Montalk. Organic Portals is a term coined by the C’s and relates to the pre-adamic man according to Mouravieff."

Now people may use it to categorize themselves and "others".

I think there is a find edge that is at play in the world of ideas. Many of the sources that went into this article have a PERSONAL agenda of authoritarian, judgemental and dismissive attitudes. Do we resonate to ideas out of our own personal agendas? Have we dismissive and judgemental view on our own?

Does anyone here doubt themselves? Do you wonder "Am I possible unreal, an OP"? This concern might be quickly swallowed if it appears and suppressed. Actually frankly ...We do not KNOW all we are but what I get out of "nonduality" is that we are the one who has these concerns?

The not knowing "who we are" vacumm will suck in myriad doubts....am I real? I felt a twinge a long time ago when I heard that we are basically "food for the moon". I can now FEEL how that feels...and let the deep fear be confronted by "who is fearing?"

Words that have become jargon sound lifeless because they, like "Have a nice day"...without the feeling that lives behind words. This is just habit. If we have become habitual, we may "look" less soul, but we are NOT soul less. And anyway, it not for me to judge who "might be" an OP but I do have the right to hang out with spirited and lively people who feel good to me TO BE AROUND...BOTTOM LINE.

Thanks for placing the OP Spiritwind and thanks for letting me add my own opinions.....This is coming from me, not a book. I know what my own feels like now.

However, I do like reading books (hehe) and...I was led by the comments in this article to one of the best things I have found today... a conversation I never knew existed between a disciple and a man I just love: Sri Aurobindo. I look forward to reading what he had to say here....

Conversations with Sri Aurobindo recorded by Anilbaran Roy, Part 1
https://overmanfoundation.wordpress.com ... oy-part-1/

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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Christine »

Um? I am wondering something right now... it just came to mind because I found myself reacting similarly to another person's work. This is coming in uncensored and unabridged. That is this; when someone makes a conclusion that I don't agree with I bristle and then defend my personal point of view. I called another person's work authoritarian for exactly that reason and that reason alone.

"I think there is a find edge that is at play in the world of ideas. Many of the sources that went into this article have a PERSONAL agenda of authoritarian, judgmental and dismissive attitudes. Do we resonate to ideas out of our own personal agendas? Have we dismissive and judgemental view on our own?"

Quite spot on, it is a personal, ie: another person's point of view and obviously that person put a lot of energy into developing it.

I too rebel against authority outside myself that seeks to impose its ideas on me via manipulative indoctrination. I see no problem with the OP nor Spiritwind's beautiful disclosure of her inner process. I know Tom Montalk and I talk to many others who experience the soul less realms, their experience is as valid as me going to the grocery store and getting sick because I see and feel the purposeful poisoning of our food. How could pointing this out be considered divisive?

The path of non-duality as I understand it is individual, the middle path ... it is vertical after all the horizontal planes of duality have been transited and integrated.

Sri Aurobindo and Mirra Alfassa transited and disclosed the soul less realms of other. Somewhere in an article I uploaded The Mother's Agenda ... I will find it and put it here again.
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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Eelco »

Ah but there's a key isn't there. In accepting that people are experiencing soul-less realms we can accept there experience..But do we then discard there conclusions? And if we do... What does that mean, because most often when we say we disregard a conclusion based on someone else's experience a tension field arises where both are feeling they are discarded.

In my experience it happens to the most advanced of us. And the myriad of emotions, "wrong" thought and even "wrong" speech or "wrong" action seems to arise by itself.

When reading through posts like these I usually cannot help but see similarities with experiences I have had myself. Also I can't seem to rule out my dominant ground tone's of the moment causing the words I speak or write to have certain undertones that define my state of being at the moment.

As I am having one of the roughest starts of a year in decades I cannot help to see in the above posts where I judge myself with regard to the people I deal with IRL (as opposed to those in on-line forums or FB) and even those lines seem to get blurred.
When I say I am sick and tired of those that add to the separation. I am sick and Tired of myself when I see separation in action. Woo with me when I realize the causes that led to this Karma. Not some spiritual event life-times away, but the things I have said done and didn't say or do.

I love your BOTTOM LINE Maggie. You are so right.

With Love
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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by maggie »

Christine wrote:Um? I am wondering something right now... it just came to mind because I found myself reacting similarly to another person's work. This is coming in uncensored and unabridged. That is this; when someone makes a conclusion that I don't agree with I bristle and then defend my personal point of view. I called another person's work authoritarian for exactly that reason and that reason alone.
.............
Quite spot on, it is a personal, ie: another person's point of view and obviously that person put a lot of energy into developing it.
...............
I too rebel against authority outside myself that seeks to impose its ideas on me via manipulative indoctrination. I see no problem with the OP nor Spiritwind's beautiful disclosure of her inner process. I know Tom Montalk and I talk to many others who experience the soul less realms, their experience is as valid as me going to the grocery store and getting sick because I see and feel the purposeful poisoning of our food. How could pointing this out be considered divisive?
..................

Sri Aurobindo and Mirra Alfassa transited and disclosed the soul less realms of other. Somewhere in an article I uploaded The Mother's Agenda ... I will find it and put it here again.
I really appreciate when people share their experience. I do read others ideas with interest and most like it when they tell me what life is like for them.

I WILL (empahsis on the WILL) EITHER swallow it and add to unconscious robotic stores of "information" OR I WILL filter it from my own material. All we have is our own material to use as any real guideline IMO. What I mean is that we find many things connect consistently FOR US and we ought to listen to that message. If we feel really bad after we get drunk in bars, we might not want to hang out in bars getting drunk? After we have a negative experience, we might project it as UNIVERSAL.

What I do not grok is the stretch that sets up absolutes and I am not critcizing the personal but the pseudo-universal. Some seem to start causes like trying to close all bars down in the world and calling drinkers evil....

Example...I must question why I become so irritated by certain aspects of my encounters in daily life. I do question why I cannot easily abide authoritarian edicts. But I THINK that the ability to observe this behavior means it has some meaning. And if I just say that this is a way I have for distancing myself from an energy of an over bearing feeling, I am NOT judging the other. I am just able even to say...that seems very overbearing.

I am not opposed to ideas.
Maybe I am opposed to encyclopedias of ideas becoming some truth that I must take in.

I have NOT been in the soul-less realms. I encounter what I do expect however EVERY day...that is just my experience so very often that I cannot discount its synchronicity being permanent. I cannot discount the only common factor in all my experience..that I am present when it happens. That is so weird. I am always there when I meet every being I meet.

So I will test today again when I go to work at the grocery...am I feeling the soul in the ones I meet because I chose to meet soul?
Last edited by maggie on Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by Christine »

You know maggie, I feel we are saying the same thing from different perspectives is all. Love your spark.

There is nothing I see here that you or anyone else must take in... It is a dance, isn't it? At least I find it so.

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Re: Organic Portals - Souless Humans

Post by maggie »

Christine wrote:You know maggie, I feel we are saying the same thing from different perspectives is all. Love your spark.

There is nothing I see here that you or anyone else must take in... It is a dance, isn't it? At least I find it so.
I feel the same way...takes two for a dance and what I like about free for(u)m is that we can share the moves.Love, maggie

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